Download this satsang transcribe :   Just settle in the inside. There's nothing to do, there's nothing to get. Doing and getting are going to happen anyway, don't be bothered with them. But there's nothing for you to get, for you don't need anything. What you are is so complete and all and pure and beyond what mind can imagine. But yet you know it, yet you know it. Let your attention stay there and everything in life can continue just the same. It's not about the outside world changing or sorting itself, not at all, it's where you place your attention. But your attention automatically will stay in its natural place unless there's a belief running that the outside world can still give you something. And if you believe the outside world can still give you something, ok then you gonna do something. You gotta put your attention back to where it is naturally at rest. But where mind is not engaging with thoughts, desires, beliefs, concepts, not running a bother trip with something juicy. Don't be bothered by that. You don't have to invent something juicy for your life to have purpose, there's no purpose at all. Let it be all right for your life to have no purpose, there's no purpose at all. There's no need to be ambitious there's no need to have goals there's a time and place for that. But if you've gone to satsang you might have seen through those things. Every goal will just lead to the next and every purpose will be fulfilling for a while then what, then what. Next one please keep the show going. See through it see through it see through it. For most people when you wake up in the morning it might take just a couple of second or half a minute "Oh yeah it's saturday, oh my god I've got to drag the kids to whatever... gymnastics". Do you know, that space before "this is the day and I've got to do this" that space is what I'm talking about, where there's nothing happen and it's just kind of delicious. So if you didn't go out into the "I must" thoughts or "I don't like" or "I want" if you didn't go out into that will be fine, be fine, its fine all happens in the world is fine. But if there's a lifetime of running a certain circuit in your mind, if there's a lifetime of running "I want this" or "it should be like this" or "I want the pain in my head to go" simple as that "I wish I leave in an other climate" mind will throw up anything that you can grab. There's an infinite number of thoughts there, if you don't grab them it's all over, it's all over, its fine. And if you want there to be fireworks and a big experience well you can, you know, you can chess that one forever. Because after that experience you'll be back here again. No experience will do it you see, it can't do it, it can't. How can something give you to your self, you know, how can there be a meeting of who you are think about it, you know. You're not out there looking for yourself, we'll play that game as if it's outside, you know. What you're looking for is where you're looking from. It's that simple, really it's that simple. But it gets complicated when the going out is so ingrained that the coming back requires unplugging, breaking down of believes, spiritual discipline, meditation to keep the mind at home, ok then there's a bit of work to do, there's a bit of work to do. It works like that for some and that's the progressive path, it works like that for some. Fine that's what play and not doing. But it will end and won't end with you finding you it will end with seeing that it was a total distraction, a total waste of time as well. The all spiritual search is a waste of time. You can't find you, you see, how can you find you you're not hiding from you. You're behind where you're looking from. You can't have a big celebration of all the coming home of your self. You're there all the time behind sitting silently. Nothing going on, just like in deep sleep, nothing going on. So the spiritual search will fall away it's an activity that happens, it's just an other set of experiences for the "I" and if those set of experiences are the only step in front of you well sure take them. But you'll have to drop that too you'll have to see through every spiritual technique and every single discipline, at some point. So if you intellectually grab the idea there's no point in me meditating so well you know what if your mind is still doing experiencing let it do meditation until it get drunk. There's common sense here (laughter) do you know. But at some point even self inquiry even the final step of asking "who am I" or going behind the observer that final step even that will be seen to be creating the "I". Because something goes out to come back no matter what your spiritual practice something is going out to comeback, spiritual practice is the coming back only because you've gone out. Stop going out. And for some people that ability to go out, you know what I mean by going out - plug into a thought you know - for some people there is this instant awakening with no effort no nothing. But I tell you something if that was going to happen to you you wouldn't be sitting in satsang that's for sure it would have happened already, do you see. It would have happened, if it was going to be like that or it will happen and it doesn't matter if you're here or not. But to want that to happen ha! Forget about it. That's an I going out, to want anything, that's an I going out. That's a thought process following an I creating an I and I want and blahdiblah, off we go again. So even the step between observer and that which you are, pointing mind there, even that will be too much. But only when mind is mature enough to get it only when mind is ready to actually ho! when it's seen organically. So to grab any spiritual concept that I'm flowing out here and say "ho yes I can do that ho! I don't have to do anything" don't just grab something it as to happen organically use whatever pointer is appropriate at the moment use whatever make sense to you take the shortest route possible by all means take the shortest route possible, cut to the chase. But to jump over something that needs to be experienced, it won't work, it won't work. So self honesty is very useful really self honesty is very useful. Because something happens in the seeing of what you are not, you have to see what you are not for it to be clear about what you are. So all the spiritual practice eventually will show itself to be "but sure I'm not that, I can't be the one looking for something or going to get something that's just the I going out doing something else" more fine more sophisticated but it's still an I activity. And for some, spiritual practice still continues post awakening post enlightenment but it's not to get anything it's just because that's what the form does it's the lifestyle that's running. But there's nothing to be gained by it and if it stop there's nothing to be lost. It feels like the end of that. (Laughter)   Listen to this audio satsang : Boston, USA, April 23rd, 2010

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Download this satsang transcribe :   Jac: Settle into that place where you know that nothing matters... because really, nothing matters; really nothing matters. If you get taken off the planet today, the planet will do just fine without you.... You might be missed for a while, and you might not, you know ? In fifty years' time... who was she, who was he ?... Let it show itself that nothing matters. In the relative world, everything matters – where there's a you, and there are responsibilities, and there's all that movie playing. Of course things matter there, and... they matter according to your value system. But that's just a software program; it's just a software program – really nothing matters, really. Something takes care of all the rest. So if your attention is in the place of where nothing matters, there will be no dismissal of the universe; nothing will be denied; nothing will be dismissed. That's not it. It's neither an acceptance nor a rejection; it's neither an attraction or an aversion. Outside of all of that pulling and tugging at life, outside of all of that, let attention stay there. Let the relief come. There's a relief in it, let it come. And mind will do its best to pull you back into the story – it will play a bit of guilt, and it will play a little bit of whatever... that's just mind – don't believe a word of it. Still... nothing matters. And somehow, care will be taken; in every detail care will be taken. Naturally, through your form, care will be taken. It's bizarre - without knowing whether something's important or not; without knowing any of that value system talking to you, somehow something will take care organically and naturally, if you step out of the way, and leave your attention where nothing matters. There might be a bit of trust that's needed... so trust. Stay where nothing matters... You'll find that an 'I' story cannot arise in the place where nothing matters. The story about you, about who you think you are – it actually cannot come up there. Attention has to leave the place where nothing matters to run that, "Oh, but what about me; what's going on in my life ?" It actually has to leave that place of where nothing matters. An investment of energy has to be made to pump that story again, to pick up where you left it off 10 minutes ago maybe. Do you see how it works ? Don't bother picking it up; don't bother picking up the 'I'; don't bother. There are no 'should's' in any of this, you know ? Something natural is taking care of the whole show; there's something natural in resting your attention where nothing matters. There's a rest in what is natural, and relief, and an order to what's natural. There are no brownie points for suffering, for carrying the weight of the world on your shoulders, or for running all these stories about things; the way your life should have been. It's just gobbledygook, you know ? It's potluck, how your life turns out. You can feel yourself working to make life pleasurable and easy, and you can make it gentler and have a lifestyle that's gentle maybe; and you can get a certain freedom by managing your thoughts. But if that's still not enough, ah ha! OK! Now place your attention to where nothing matters... But satsang being satsang, we tend to have a forum for the 'I', which is a little bit against what this whole thing is about but, you know, it's the world of duality; so here we go, huh ? So if there's an 'I' story that's sticky, by all means, the chair is here for that purpose. If you've got a question or want to talk about something, just come up to the chair and we'll see what happens... It doesn't matter either way, anyway... Oh man, who's idea was it that this is important ? ... A big cosmic joke; the 'I' trying to get ride of the 'I'; and you never get rid of the 'I' trying to get rid of the 'I'. The thing is just [poppycock]. ... What you are is underneath the 'I' story and the 'I' does this dance. Q: ... It's just about discomfort, this continuous physical, horrible sensation in the body, particularly in the morning time. And I actually try to go to sleep to hide away from it – it's stupid, because when I'm suddenly awake and then I say, "Oh, it feels horrible." So it's kind of running away, which doesn't help at all. And then you wake up, it's just extreme, you know ? So, it's the 'I' that's actually... well, that's what I don't know. I mean it's probably going to continue as a physical sensation. And I'm just wondering how to get the 'I' out of it completely. J: The 'I' is the one who's having the physical sensation. Now, the physical sensation can be there without an 'I'. Can you see that one ? Q: Yes, yes. J: OK. So the layer of physical sensation – that appears to be happening, and it's felt; but the 'I' who's feeling it is the one who's suffering because of it. It's only the 'I' who can say that "I don't like this." Q: So it's only the 'I' that's suffering... J: Only, and not the body. Q: OK. J: Because, when you're asleep there's no 'I' running. And so if the physical sensation is there or not, there's nobody concerned about it. Q: Absolutely... so it's only on the waking, and then the 'I' immediately grabs onto it and says, "Oh, oh, this is a horrible feeling..." J: Yes. And it's not that the 'I' is there all the time either; it's just that the 'I' thought happens to... go together with a thought of physical pain and discomfort and the judgment around it, of course, registering it as uncomfortable – that is now tagged onto an 'I' story. Q: So how do I shift it ? J: OK. If you can create a distance between the physical sensation and the one who doesn't like it... if you can put a chink in there and see that, "Yeah, this physical sensation there – oh, I have it ... Hold on, there's the 'I'." There's just physical sensation. Q: Just notice the 'I' that crops up... J: Yeah. It's only the 'I' dialogue; you need to make a split between the two. The sensation isn't the problem – it's the 'I' dialogue that you want to go after... that 'I don't like it', and 'here it is' and 'oh, will this ever go' and 'if I turn this way, maybe it will be better', or whatever happens. Q: And then at the same time I hear if I say 'no', the sensation is particularly horrible... J: According to the 'I' – that's the 'I' story. So if there's just raw physical sensation... Q: Yeah. I don't even know what it is, but it's... J: So if that's just there, raw physical sensation... just let it be. Q: Yeah. J: And even less than letting it be, just that it appears to be there – even if it's again, again, again, it just appears to be there. Q: Yeah. J: No more, no more than this... because the one who is now letting it be is an 'I'. Q: I can see that... J: It will even sneak in like that. It will take an 'I' to accept it... or reject it, or judge it, or see it. Q: It comes in so fast. J: Yes, that's the deal... physical sensation... nothing more, nothing more, not even one who's accepting it, or one who's letting it be – not even that much of an 'I'. If you give the 'I' a little bit when it comes to body identification, if you give the 'I' a millimeter, it's going to take a mile. Q: Yeah, because it just revels in that. J: It does, it revels in that. So if there's been a concession, "OK, I'm going to just let it be," this is too late. You're already letting it be, and now it's like, "I wish it would go" – now we're in a battle of having the right attitude towards the physical pain, you see ? And that's all 'I' story, doing the right thing to deal with the pain, to accept the pain. Q: Yeah, because even the maneuvering myself to accept it is an 'I', isn't it ? J: It's an 'I'. Q: So, any maneuvering at all is stupid. J: Exactly. Any maneuvering is wallowing in self pity – you might as well go the full nine yards if you're going to do anything. It's all 'I', so you've got to get it at it's most subtle, which is the one who's practicing letting it be, the one who's being OK with it – that would be the most subtle bit of an 'I' around physical pain always. Q: Total acceptance. J: Yes, the one who's doing the total accepting is the 'I' sneaking in around the body stuff always. Q: Oh, so that's not even good. J: Correct, it's too much. Who's the one doing total acceptance ? Sometimes we have to practice that as a stepping stone. But it's a trick. You can't hang out there, because the 'I' is going to get fatter, practicing accepting it. Q: So what would be the very best ? J: There is 'physical discomfort' – no more. Q: Yeah. J: And from there – it 'appears' that there's physical discomfort. Now it's not happening to anybody, and there's nobody reacting to it... and there's nobody in relationship to it. Q: Yeah. J: OK ? So all of that bubble has to be seen. Q: Yeah. So you actually have to see yourself doing it... J: Yes. Q: ... and then you break through it. J: Yes. Q: OK, well I'll start tomorrow morning. J: Yeah... 'there appears to be physical discomfort'. OK. And it's really tricky when it's between wake and sleep, because you're not totally awake actually. Q: Yeah, yeah... it's very clever. J: So the 'I' is using it (physical pain) to kick in, in the morning, you know ? Q: Right. I'll be on guard tomorrow morning. J: The 'I' will be on guard tomorrow morning. Yeah, yeah, but it's OK; we have to do it like this, you know ? Q: To start... J: Absolutely, you have to do it like that because the physical, 'I am the body', is the deepest one, the deepest one, you know ? So of course it takes the 'I' to burn out the 'I' when you're watching that, when you're breaking a pattern. Q: It's very helpful to hear that because, you know, you have to start where you're at. J: Absolutely, absolutely... an 'appearance' of physical discomfort, and let that be as much of an acknowledgement, as much of an engagement as is possible – everything else will be 'I', everything else. Q: Yeah. Right. Thank you. J: OK. Q: I just want to tell you something, really. Do you remember the last time I was talking to you, I had something going on with a professional body that I was involved with... and it was on again on Tuesday. The last time it was very difficult and went very badly, and this time it was a quarter past five in the evening, so you're hanging around all day. And I kept thinking all day about what you were saying to me last time, about burning off more of what you are not. And I kept thinking that when I feel the fear coming up and just saying, "I am not that." And it's funny, because when I was waiting all day, I went in and [there were] moments of fear... but I went out with the dog just before, and I was happy... with the dog, you know ? But then I went down to the place, and it was in a waiting room, and they were late, and I had to walk from the waiting room down to the room where there was about ten people I had to go in and sit. And I was thinking when I was walking down that corridor of [when] Dostoevsky was sentenced to death, and he was saying the walk to the scaffold took like two minutes, and it seemed like all eternity... but actually what came into my head as I was walking down the corridor was, I started saying the serenity prayer. And when I went into the room I saw these hostile faces... and I stayed aware and went into the Self, and I stayed there... I'd have usually forgotten when I go in somewhere like that... I actually stayed there the whole time, and I started looking around... instead of being afraid. And after about 10 minutes the whole atmosphere in the room changed and became much more relaxed and friendly, and it ended OK. Now it's not over yet, but they said, "Look, all we want is to get this sorted out." ... I was blown away [the next day] by the power this thing... the Presence or the Self or whatever, I felt it was in the room. The whole thing changed; it was unbelievable. J: Yeah. It's everywhere all the time, because there's only That. It's everywhere. So what is it that recognized it then, and what would have thought that at other places or in other times it wasn't there ? Q: Yeah, well, I suppose... you're just not seeing at that time... J: Yeah, just an 'I' story running the show. Perception is in an 'I' story, you see, but if it's not in an 'I' story, it's all what you are. Q: Yeah, that's what happened kind of, the 'I' story wasn't there... and it seemed to affect the room kind of, you know ? It was amazing. J: Yes, it does, it affects everything if there is a propensity for [one] to accept it... if what you are will be reflected and is ready to be seen within what it is. But sometimes it's not; sometimes the opposite will come because that's what is moving. Q: Well, I was just awestruck by it really... it was just staggering actually, when I saw what happened... J: Yes, beautiful. Something in every human being, and in every morsel of concrete, and in every dog and every bird wants to go home... but if the 'I' story is too strong, then that pull home - it will wait. But if the 'I' story isn't shouting and roaring, the pull home will be responded to. Something's going to recognize what you are if that's playing, if that's 'up'... and that's what happened. And things roll smoother and roll finer because there isn't ego... the duality game isn't in full power. Q: Yeah, sure, there's no fear... J: So it mightn't go on for years after all, huh ? Q: It mightn't, no... it might be over soon. J: Wonderful. Q: This morning... I was in deep sleep and woke up into a dream before I actually woke up. And in the dream... I felt unwell, and when I woke up I actually did as well. It's still there; the body is a bit [under the weather]. And I was reading last night before I went to sleep about Ramana talking about stages of dreaming and sleeping, and that when we're awake, actually it's awake and dreaming, and that you can't be in this place... where you're awake and you're not dreaming, and that you see that everything that's happening is a dream... In other words, it's kind of like being in a deep sleep, except you're awake. So I was thinking of that, and I know when I woke up I came out of a very deep place, that I'm still kind of half in contact with. J: Yes, 'something' is apart. Let this creation find its place, and it will be seen to be a dream 24/7 – all of it is a dream. Even if you remember something, there is a seeing that it's memory. Let it be that even if, 'Oh, I remember this is from yesterday,' there's no way of knowing if there was a yesterday, or if this happened yesterday; that's just memory happening now.... The dream is only just now; it's just now. It doesn't tie to past or future. Q: OK, the feeling is still there, you know, there's still a contact with that... J: Yeah, because generally the feeling is the pulling away while creation settles into being seen for what it really is – a dream. This is just a dream; there's nothing going on here. Or you could also say it's a reflection of the Self, of what you really are. It's just like a hologram, you know; it's just like some colors coming out of it – that's all this is. It has no more substance and no more reality at all, no matter what pair of sunglasses you put on – this is not happening. It's not; it's just a whole load of flickers and colors and shapes and forms and bladdy bla. And some labeling goes on, you know ? Q: And how do you know, once again, when the body is a bit unwell... how would you deal with that ? J: Let the body be unwell; and what's the problem ? Who's the one who'll be dealing with or if it's denied ? The controller wants it to be better. OK, if you could make the shift to see that the controller who wants better health is a happening in consciousness, then controlling will happen; but if you are the one, if there's an investment in wanting it to be better, now we're in trouble. That's a desire. 'I would be happier if my body wasn't feeling so unwell.' OK, now we're in trouble. But there is a natural thing that will move towards good health. Q: Sure, yeah, well I have very good health mostly... J: Yeah, you're body is healthy; so fair enough. If the body isn't healthy, it's going to die anyway some day... so it will probably get unwell before it dies. So what would be the problem about being unwell ? Q: Well, there isn't really; it isn't really bothering me... I was just wondering... J: OK, but something will probably take care. You'll probably buy vitamin C if there's a cold. This kind of thing happens. But if there's, 'Oh God, I need to fight this,' now we're into 'I' territory. But something moves towards a goodness or well-being, something moves toward well-being... but never with an obsession, never. Q: Yeah, I see that clearly, sure my body is breaking down... [enumeration]... J: Yeah, it is grand... and something will take care, to a certain amount; it won't go over the top on fixing it. But to find where that level is…because it will be based on conditioning. Whatever education there is around body care will kick in. And more than that won't happen. So other people will say, "Why don't you go to a doctor," and it will never come into your head. "Oh, a doctor; oh yeah, I forgot about that." ... The controller will get you to a doctor, but if there's no controller there, you won't go to a doctor. Bizarre... something will have to take you to a doctor; it won't just kick in. Do you see ? But a low-grade maintenance will happen; so just to find that, to recognize that there's a low-grade maintenance, and if a controller tries to come in to fix any of it... have none of that. And that detachment, that feeling of being half kind of in deep sleep... let that incubate. Q: OK. J: It's a load of crap we're talking about really, but anyway... just the dance of the 'I', huh ? J: Let there be a lightness to any 'I' story. Because, if what people say about this not being real, or this being a dream or whatever – if that's true, if you can make a leap to that, then what would be the point in taking it seriously, or taking stuff personally ? That couldn't fit in anywhere. It doesn't fit in anywhere.... The personal 'I' is a thought, you see, it's just a thought. The 'all about me' story, it's just in your head. But mind will imagine that you wouldn't even get up in the morning unless there's an 'all about me' scenario playing to fulfill the day. Yet life will continue just the same, just the same without that personal 'I' being in charge... without the 'should's' and the 'have to's' and being responsible, without any of it. Life will just happen, just the same... with less turbulence. If there is any difference, it's an absence of turbulence. So the juice of running an 'all about me' story, that is going to be lost. That one will have to be surrendered for sure. Do you know... that juice of "Oh, I've got a new project, or a new story, or a new romance, or a new..." – the juice of that 'I'. You know when something's happening, when experience is running – that will be lost. You pay a high price to keep that juice going. A high price is paid, because suffering is still inside. The potential to suffer runs with that juice, that buzz that the 'I' gets when it's running a story that's all about itself – the capacity to suffer is equal [to the story being run]. Q: Jackie, there's been a sense of great peace for a long period of time. During the week something came up and I actually saw it happening, in the sense of I saw it happening to the 'I', but it was like I was sucked into the vortex of it. It was really strong, and even though I could see it... in an instant I saw what it was, but I was in it and... even though I could observe it and say, "This is just a story sucking me in," I was in it... and it took an amount of whatever tools I had to come out of it again... it seemed like a sneaky one, it just came in like that... and it was probably a period of about 24 hours before the whole sensation left me. It wasn't so much running as a thought any more, but I was feeling it in the body. Does that make sense ? J: Totally, because thoughts are energetic, you see; it's just a ball of energy, that's all it is, and it... finds home in that physical form for a while, so that it's got a story, and there's something that isn't feeling good about it, and you identify with it, and then it's part of what you think you are, and bladdy bladdy bla. But actually it's a ball of energy - a thought form is a ball of energy. So very often you can feel it in your body, very often, rather than actually being in the story of it; for some people it stays at the mental level, and some people it's the physical manifestation of it – both are fine; it's the same thing. Q: OK, as I say it wasn't so much mental because I had an observation on it pretty much immediately, but it was so strong that... it pulled me completely into it. So that's all it was doing in the body, is it ? J: Yes... yeah, it's just a piece of energy and that thought form is in the body because of identification with it. If you're lost in it, you'll feel it in your physical body. If you're not lost in it, you won't. It might be around you, but never gets close enough. But if there's identification, if it's happening to 'you', of course it's going to feel like it's in your body; that's how it presents; that's how mind interprets it. Do you see ? Q: Yes. The initial thing, it was that, it was an 'all about me' story in the instant that it happened. And even though I could let that go mentally, it had a hold on me in another way. J: Yes, because it must have been that you let go of it in theory, but something was still running. If the energy of it is still inside you, then some part of it is still believed. Q: OK. J: Something was still 'ah, but maybe', or 'some part of me actually wants to feel this', or 'thinks this' or 'is still there' or 'maybe, maybe, maybe'. Some little loophole was there; otherwise, when you worked it out and you said, "Oh that's just a thought", it would have left. But if the energy of it stayed, you cut it off in theory only. Q: OK, so there was some of it still hanging around, manifesting as the energy effect in the body. J: Absolutely, because in some way you bought into it... there's some other level that you bought into there, which probably is worth giving a look at, just to see what was in there that kept that around. Sometimes when you're caught in something, you know that you're right in, you're completely sucked in. It's like there is a 180-degree twist so that you totally believe you're in the story, and then it's absolute theory that this is a thought. Do you know what I mean ? You know the perspective that you can have, 'Yeah, everything's fine,' and 'Yes, these are just thoughts,' and you're doing the work, bladdy bla. Then when you get caught in something, it's completely the other way around... you can imagine that seeing things as thoughts is not real at all, and that this is real. You know ? It can do a complete 180. Now if that happens and you're like, 'How in the name of god did I imagine this is thought ? That's bullshit; I'm just fooling myself; this life event is what's real, much more real than that.' You know what I'm talking about ? Q: Yeah. J: OK, when that happens, the only thing I used to do myself was say, 'OK, I'm just going to have to trust that this perspective is the one that's not real. It's simply playing as very real, what am I going to do here ? OK, I'm just going to have to trust that the other one is real.' Because it's just that the 'I' is running 100 percent, full on; there's no objectivity at all. If the 'I' is running full on, all you can do is just trust, is just say, "No, I know this is the program; I know I totally believe it, but something is just going to jump out there to the theory...", and maybe it will shift again and the observing position will present as real. But when you're in that 'I' place, the other viewpoint will be cuckoo land; it will seem like that perspective is totally a denial and not real at all. When you're fully in the 'I', it can be very convincing, very convincing. So there are two options there – one is to just take that leap of faith, that the objectivity on thoughts; 'This is just a thought; give me distance from this here; this is just a thought'; and if you can only do that in theory, do it anyway. The other option is that you get deeper and deeper into the 'I' story. And one 'I' story will run into another 'I' story, into another 'I' story, and you can lose yourself for weeks. Sometimes it's just that you're grabbing a theory, because you've lost objectivity so much you're just grabbing a theory. But grab it anyway... Q: Yeah, I could see it more clearly once the complete time was over, but it did take 24 hours. But you know... I couldn't quite understand that if I had let the thought go, I could still see thought, but that it was still in the body, that's what I couldn't really... connect, or disconnect. J: Yes. Some part which was still believed to be reality; you were still running it.... The other option is to see it as, 'OK, it's just a thought and it's gone, and the energy will run out when it runs out. This isn't my body anyway; it's just a sensation in consciousness; and mind has put this energy with that thought.' Maybe, maybe not. That's another angle. Q: OK, so there could have been a situation where I saw it, and to let it all go completely. J: Yes... Q: ... but there's something in that that I held onto. J: That's right, you held onto something... Q: ... kind of without an awareness, or an awareness... J: Something didn't spot where the subtlety was, where identification was running; something wasn't seen. You could feel it, but you couldn't see it – ask 'where's the connection here ?' Q: Yeah, I couldn't see it. J: So, try letting the sensation flow through; it's not your body anyway. It's not what you are. It's just sensation. Distance might come there, too. It's either there, or you look to see where's the hidden, subtle thought that you're buying. It's one or the other – do you see your two options ? Q: Yeah... OK. I have another question in and around thoughts and procrastination. If there's a decision... an action, it's kind of like the action, the thought, and the doer are all jumbled up together... say an awareness arises that I'm going to ring a family member that wouldn't be a regular kind of contact, and then it comes into consciousness in some way, but there's kind of a leaving of it, and the period gets longer and longer and longer, you know, until I perform the action... and then when the action is performed... it seems like thought is delaying it in some way, but thought also jumps on the bandwagon and says, 'See, I told you it was about nothing anyway.' ... There's something underlying running in that kind of scenario... The same thing could happen about a payment being due at the bank, and the awareness arises, 'That needs to be paid', and then it will just go somewhere; I'll forget about it or... and then this deadline mightn't be met; and then after I do it the thought arises, 'Why didn't you do that in the first place ?'... What's going on with that; it's like procrastination, but where's the 'I' connected with that ? J: OK. Mind will use anything you say, of course, because it needs to be busy; so it will use anything at all. So in this example, it sounds like an idea pops in to do something. Now mind will happily chew on that one. Now that is going to happen somewhere down the line – it's going to happen if it's going to happen. So whether you think about it five minutes before it happens two weeks later for the first time, or whether you think it two weeks beforehand and you're going to chew on it every third day until then, suit yourself... because it's the 'I have to do this', material to create the 'I' story. It could chew on anything, but it's just chewing on something that it's going to do, or not do, or whatever. ... The action of phoning the relative will happen exactly at that moment it happened anyway; it will happen. Q: Without all the... J: Without all the lead in, and the build up, and 'I should have' and 'I'll do it tomorrow' and 'I forgot again. Oh my god, I'd better write it down', 'Jesus, if I don't do it now... '. All this garbage is just the 'I' story, do you see ? Q: Yeah., so it's kind of like this slow-burning thought in a way; it can kind of pop in and out. J: Yes, and none of that is needed to actually perform the action, none of it. Q: So the fact that the awareness might have arisen two weeks ago, and the action only happens two weeks later, it's just going to happen when it's going to happen. J: Absolutely. The action two weeks later is only going to be when it's going to happen. The playing of that thought for two weeks is just the 'I' with its 'I have to do this' or 'I should do this' or whatever version of the 'I' has attached to the thought. So in a way become a bit careless, you know – 'Let's see if I am going to make that call' or 'Let's see if I don't' – and forget about it. Q: So it will just happen. J: It will or it won't. Q: ... or it won't. J: Exactly, it will or it won't; because the thing that will keep you chewing that 'I' thought for the two weeks will be, 'I should; I should; and I should'. Q: Yeah, 'I ought to'. J: Yeah, every version of that – that's the 'I' material, you see ? Q: Yes. Well, there was a little bit of something that came in, like, testing it with regard to the relative; if I never did it... J: Yes, and what would you get if you never did it ? Q: The 'I' would have a feeling of guilt. J: Yeah, well that's the opposite of 'I should', and 'If I don't, I'll punish myself with guilt'... Throw it all out; throw it all out – that leads nowhere... because the action's going to happen independently of that loop. And if you don't run the 'I should' story, there'll be no guilt if you don't take action. They're tied up, they're in bed together... so become a bit careless, you know ? It can feel like that for the 'I', just as a little bridge... Q: Yeah, kind of just letting it be... J: Correct. And you'll pick up the phone some day, and you'll make the phone call; and you'll find yourself in the bank making that payment. These things will happen; it might get a bit sloppy for a while, but it will align itself again. Q: It's OK if it's sloppy... if the 'I' doesn't get involved in it. J: Absolutely... it aligns itself again; some order comes in. Q: Thank you. J: You're welcome. Q: What you were saying to C- just prompted a question in me. If there's something sticky, and you're saying that if you spot it you'll get distance from it. It only stays sticky if you can't see what it is; then you're in it, if you can't see it.... What if the thought is 'I am the body' ? J: OK. If the thought is just 'I am the body' itself or 'I am the body and...' ? Q: 'I am the body and...' J: OK, so the 'and' one – do you get distance from the 'and' one ? Q: I'm just thinking of something yesterday that came up, and it lasted a couple of hours, and... it passed... but at the time, there was a lot of, you know, 'what is it ?' and really trying to investigate and go into it, and I wasn't getting anywhere with it, so I just left it. But afterwards, it felt like... desire... in the body. J: OK, so then you could see that it was desire. Q: Yeah... desire about unconditional love in the realm of... wanting to love and wanting to be loved. J: OK. Is the 'I am special' one still running, or have you cracked that one - the desire to be special for another ? Q: No, I've seen that... yeah, it's still there. J: ... because the unconditional love one is usually around 'I am special, I want to be special, I want to be special for someone'... that love pull. Q: It's two-way as well though, you know; it's like 'I want to mind somebody,' you know; so it's the two-way thing. So that's [part of being] special, isn't it... J: It's a special thing to do, to take care. OK. So the unconditional love bit, and sexual desire bit – and we've got the 'special thing' running, right ? You can see those. Q: Yeah. J: Now, of course, the foundation rock of all of them is 'I am the body'. One way to work it out in the body is literally to re-program the thought. Q: To deny it ? J: Absolutely – 'I am not this body; I am not this body', and you'll run it as a mantra. And you literally change the belief, just changing the belief by running a different bit of software. Dead simple – 'I am not this body; I am not this body; I am not this body'. Run it, run it, run it, run it – and change the conditioning... dead simple. Actually, it's so rooted, but it's one that just goes 'poof' – you can literally just run the opposite thought. 'I am the body' is a foundational one, and it's a primary belief, 'I am this body' runs and bingo!, separation happens as a result. It's like a domino effect... Because it's a foundational belief, getting a distance from 'I am the body' doesn't work, because there's still a bit of the one who's the body gets the distance from 'I am the body'. So 'I am the body' is a tricky one, but I've yet to hear where it doesn't work to actually run the opposite as a mantra. Run the opposite as a mantra, and see if you can get it from underneath. See if it will break from underneath. ... So there's a few little things running here. that need to be nipped. But if you're going for the 'I am the body', run the 'I'm not this body; I'm not this body'. Q: Is that kind of like the core of all those... well, I mean I suppose that 'I don't exist' is kind of the core of the whole show anyway ? If you go down into that, will the other stuff just kind of break open anyway ? J: Yeah, it will loosen an awful lot. The sequence isn't completely that clear. There's a general trust that they're all standing on top of that belief... [but other old beliefs or desires]... can still run even though the 'I am the body' is dissolved. Let it show itself that it's a happening in consciousness – then there'll be no sense that it's 'my desire'. Q: There'll be no stickiness around it. J: There'll be no stickiness. It's like, 'Whoa, that's running'... for nobody. And no matter how far you look, it's just a movement in consciousness. Why can't it run here, there, everywhere – it's running everywhere else; there's no difference about this form than any other form. Q: So, if you're looking at something that's sticky, the underlying belief is 'I exist' or 'I am the body... I am... this person'. J: Yeah, 'I'm separate'. Q: So... a lot of it is just in being seen [through] then... J: Yes. Get to know this mantra... It's just the spin of exploring who you're not. The working out and the breaking of belief systems and desires – that's the 'I' still doing its thing. Q: But it's never-ending... well maybe it's possible... J: Perfect, if you see that it's never-ending, then drop it. If you see that it's leading you nowhere, and that's the same thing as seeking, you will see that seeking is leading nowhere, that seeking itself is the problem. So at a certain point, you can work on working things out... until you see that's the actual problem. Q: Well, it's fueling the 'I'. J: It's fueling the 'I'. Absolutely. Yet it has to be done, and then at a certain point the activity itself is fueling the 'I'. So the mind, of course, if that's what's fueling the 'I', the mind will find anything for you to work on, to keep you fueling the 'I' through working out something else. Now if that's seen through, then it's finished forever. Q: Yeah, it feels like reading books sometimes as well is doing the same thing. J: Yes. Stop reading. Great, stop reading. Q: Because it's kind of like there's a picture in the book I was reading, and there was a fellow sitting under a tree with a book, and it was an apple tree, and there were apples on the tree and there were apples all around, and it was still doing the taste of apples... Do you know what I mean ? It kind of feels like that. J: Yeah, super, fantastic, great news. You see, you can't theoretically jump to that point of, 'Oh my god, working on myself is just the 'I' story'. You have to see that 'This is going nowhere; this is just going to be forever chewing another thing that I have to work out... this is going nowhere'. Fantastic, if that's seen – end of story, nothing more to work out – let that finish. Let it finish. If you can see through that, super. OK, what's left; what's left then. If that stops... Q: [apparently tears] J: ... and underneath that... so if it's all over, is that all right ? ... You see, there never was a separate 'you'. There's just those 'I' thoughts cruising around, doing their damnedest to get a bit of attention to run an 'I' story – it never created a 'you'. It can't create a 'you'. Q: It's just attention like... J: Yes. Q: That's all that it is – attention is either there or it's here. It seems that subtle. J: It is that subtle. That's right. Attention is at home or it's out... Easier to leave it at home, huh ? It's natural. Q: Still runs though... I mean the thoughts still run; the attention goes there. But it's still moving in and out from it... J: OK. And is there attention at home and an awareness of attention going to thoughts ? Q: It's in and out... J: So if there is a going to thoughts, is that where attention is then ? Q: Yeah, that's where attention is... and then it's back. So it's an in and out thing. J: OK. And is it in the story for long ? Q: Not really, no. The frequency is, it's very frequent. J: Come back, come back, come back... OK. What's it going out for at all ? Q: It's like what you said about 'juice'. There's a bit of juice still. And particularly when I feel good, you know... J: OK. Can you surrender the desire to feel good ? To use softer words, if I could find them... can you go there, that pull to feeling good ? ... Wherever it is given a value, as something to be obtained; that feeling good is important... can we maybe strip it ? Feeling good, not feeling good – so bloody what, so what. Q: Yeah... there's an entertainment within... the story, within my life story, and that's why it really feels like I need to pull back from everything, you know, from all external kind of... Because I've been doing something new recently... like these courses, and there's a lot of thinking around that – how to do it well, and what does that mean – you know, there's a lot of busyness and lot's of writing about it... and assessing how to do it or how not to do it, even though within it or when it's happening there isn't that at play, only in retrospect. So there is some kind of interest or entertainment around it. J: OK, and can that just be the functioning ? Q: Without there being 'me' attached to it... Yeah. J: And even if the functioning appears to enjoy it... Q: See that it's just enjoying it... J: Just enjoyment being had. If it's juicy, then there's an 'I' doing it. But there is like a low-grade enjoyment of everything, but the mind will attribute the activity to what creates the enjoyment. Do you see ? And if you can, see that joy arises up all the time when attention is at home. But mind will attach to the project – I enjoy; there's a subjective enjoyment going on. No, enjoyment comes up anyway, but mind will attach it to the outside thing, to keep the 'I' show going.... It's misappropriated, if that's the word. There is the point of joy coming from what you are... and it's like the juice of the 'I' is an add-on to a natural joy. And that will... be seen with the desire to want to feel good, because the 'juice' is what makes it feel good, do you see ? It's a good 'I' trick – to want to feel good. Q: Say that now again, Jac. J: OK... I want to link that with the pull to feeling good; the juice around wanting to feel good, or that it's good to feel good. Because joy naturally arises from something, and then we imagine that the outside world is actually creating the joy, because we add on a bit of juice to the natural joy and say, 'Oh, it's coming from that, from that activity; that activity gives me the buzz'. OK, that's the 'I' tag- on bit to it. But the natural joy arising is exquisitely fine, but the 'I' will put this super layer on top of it, and [give the project all of the credit for the joy]. OK ? Now, that will run if there is a strong... that will be very addictive if there's a strong pull to feeling good. Q: OK, I got you now. J: OK, because 'feeling good' will make sure that there's a something that you were doing that makes you feel good. So it will make the 'I' be the one who's doing what feels good. Q: That's very convincing... J: It's very convincing... it's wonderful; it has to work, you see... All events/activities are the same; they're all nothing; they're all just physical happenings, you know ? ... So whatever the functioning of the form, whatever activity is happening in the body, it does not have the power to make you feel good, not at all – that's a thought. Q: So go back a second now to 'Surrender the desire to feel good'. J: Yeah. 'Feeling good' seems to have a little bit of a trophy attached to it. OK, drop that. See through that one; see through it; it's a trick. Feeling good is your nature because... something exquisitely beautiful arises from what you are, and it is goodness itself. It's not even being good or feeling good – it's goodness itself. It arises from what you are, and then this diluted version is a reflection of it in the world; and you seem to have taken on board, and are willing to accept, this diluted version of that, because it comes with the 'I' kick, do you see ? Q: Yep. J: The hook: throw away the external world of feeling good; let that be not good enough. See through it, because it comes with a lining of pain; it has to come with a lining of pain. It's just like a chemical that's turned on in the brain; it's just mind doing its trick to keep the 'I' story running. So see how the 'I love to feel good', see how that is made up. What are the ingredients of that; break it right down, and you'll see that it's just a concept believed. And in the believing of it, something runs endorphins, or a kick or a juice or a buzz or a lightness, or whatever. The lightness arises from what you are, but it's misappropriated because there's something that pulls attention towards feeling good, and your mind has wired it up so that this good feeling comes from the external activity. It doesn't. The lightness and the juice arises from what you are... in its purest form. Q: I know that... it's not always associated with something... just feeling good just is... But that good feeling, I know that's not enough, the external one. J: Do you see, from the internal to the external, then, feeling good. Q: The feeling good becomes external when there's an 'I' attached, I assume. J: Exactly. Q: But even that is precarious; the 'feeling good' is precarious when there's an 'I'. J: Yeah, of course it is. Q: So it's still not good enough... J: Yes. OK, so let it be not good enough all the time. Q: OK. J: Because there's still a little bit of a trophy... Q: Yeah, there's a pull there. J: There's a pull there. Let that be not good enough, because it's just a bundle of concepts – it's not authentic, you know ? It's not authentic; it's just a bundle of concepts – that has to be seen, you see, that it's just a bundle of concepts. Q: Feeling good is a bundle of concepts... J: Oh yeah, feeling good is a bundle of concepts... totally conditioned program... and 'I like this' and 'I like this' and hey – the result, a bit of endorphin kick is here, a happy feeling. It's a bundle of concepts; you can switch them off and switch them on, and we imagine it's something outside switching them on – not at all. It's completely and totally a bundle of concepts all lined up. So see through it; see how it's created... then it falls down, you see, because it's not real. Does that make sense ? Q: Yeah, I just hit a wall there, going 'Oh god, we're back into this whole working thing again, you know ?' J: Yeah, yes and no. ... It's not exactly working out issues. It's just... Q: Seeing... J: Seeing... what feeling good looks like when you see that it's not real. See that; there's an invitation to see that. Q: See what feeling good looks like when it's not real. J: Yes, when it's known to be not real. Q: Yeah. J: It's not about working it out... [it's about seeing what it's dependent on...] It's just a seeing; don't work anything out. Keep it simple – it's just a seeing. It's just a bundle of concepts; that's all it is, with a knock-on feel good factor attached, like an entitlement to feel good if you run these set of concepts. That's how it works – run these concepts, and there's an entitlement to an endorphin hit with it, do you see ? So step back so that's just seen to be a construct of mind, that's all, no working out – seeing, pure seeing... of the illusion and how it works; seeing how the matrix works. ... You see ? Q: Yeah... J: ... almost ? Q: I feel like there's something else I need to say... J: OK, it's just something energetic... now behind that, now drop all that. It's like it's just ungluing something. So... behind all that now, behind all that. ... OK, so let it be seen that all juice is simply just a series of concepts with an endorphin kick at the end of it. Mind is a set up; believe this, and believe this, and believe this – and then as a result you have a feel-good factor, like it's a prize if we believe all those concepts. That's all it is, that's what juice is. OK, so now we're breaking down the juice itself; OK, that's where I was going it seems. You see how the juice works ? Q: Yeah. J: OK, don't fall for it; keep attention at home. ... So it's not that you're surrendering juice, 'Oh, I can't have the juice any more; I'm ruining an 'I' story'. It's not that, it's just seeing that it's just nothing; it's just a make believe bundle of concepts with an endorphin kick at the end of it. That's all it is, the juice of the 'I'. So then it's not what's tagged on to what gives me juice; it's not tagged on to the end of an 'I' story; it's just the juice itself. Q: It's just the juice itself that's seen... ? J: Yeah, let it be seen that the juice itself... it's not about the 'I' any more; it's just the pull towards juice... which is an endorphin kick as the result of a few concepts. Q: OK. J: You see ? Q: Yeah. J: OK. All right. So let juice be seen through; don't go into denial of juice, it's not about that at all. It's about seeing how it works... there's no denial of juice; there's no denial of anything; it's just seeing through it, seeing that it's not real.... Do you get it ? Q: Yeah. J: Yeah, super, OK. Yeah, good. It's like juice connected to every bit of an 'I' story actually, everything, do you know ? Q: Yeah, even those ones [that are] negative... J: Yeah, yeah, totally. Q: OK. J: Yeah, yeah. Great. M: I've been invited to this function in two weeks time. It's got to do with this friend of mine who's invited me has received a hall of fame award for a sporting achievement. And I was in that world with her, that's how I met her... but I have this fear around going, because I left that world a long time ago... and not in the best possible way. I played in a tournament and said, "You can just get me a one-way ticket, because I'm not coming back." And it was in Canada. And when I look back, I think I was a bit cheeky, you know, to end like that. But I had this desire to travel and not be confined... or [come] back here just to play the sport. So I'm having all these feelings coming up, a lot of fear and, 'Oh god, I left like that', and also a sense of loyalty to her, to want to turn up for her because she's invited me. Otherwise, I think it would be more clear cut, that I just would feel I don't have to go; 'Don't put yourself through it'. But I'm realizing there's more to it... [I keep going back and forth about it]... I also came out as a lesbian at that time, and I don't think that went down very well in those circles. So I've met one or two since, and I've felt I've been snubbed. And yet, over all I got a tremendous amount from playing that game, playing [ice] hockey, playing that sport, I loved it. And in a way I think there's an incompleteness for me. J: It feels like that. M: Yeah. Maybe I haven't fully come to terms with what I did myself; also because I loved it so much, this part of me regrets or feels, 'Oh, I lost out because I didn't commit fully, and this other person did commit'. J: OK. M: I think I'd like to be able to go, because I think it would help to finish... J: Totally... closure is needed. M: And the fear part of me wants to run away and say, 'Ah, I don't want to do that'. J: Yeah, but it's going to wait for you down the line anyway, so you're going to have to [face it] sooner or later. So, we've got when you got the one-way ticket and didn't come back, so that's the first bit. At any moment we make a decision with the only equipment we can at the time... we take the only step we can take at any moment. There's no way of knowing if it's the right thing or the wrong thing, because there's no right and wrong anyway. It's just the next step that your form is going... OK ? Now, to turn it the other way around, it's quite likely that there's somebody in that group that said, "God, I wish I had the balls that M had, to go and just leave everything; that she could have gone and really made something of something else, that she just walked away from the whole thing, and I wish [I] had the courage to do that." ... What happens is the only thing that can happen; it's the only thing. That was what made sense at the time, and that was your movement at the time, and so be it. So that was it. M: That's acceptance. J: That's it. That absolutely was the only option that you could, because in any moment... you think there's choice, but there's no choice at all. Free will is a total joke; there's no choice at all. There's only one thing going to happen at any moment, with all the given set of conditions, and that's the way it works. So you'd no option actually but to go when you went. OK. No ? M: Yes. You know that's very refreshing... I don't think I would have seen it that clearly. I thought I always have choice. J: No, not at all. Mind plays with choice; there isn't a choice at all. There's never a choice – we just play with it. M: So that's like saying there's no mistakes... J: No, there are no mistakes. M: ... you can't do anything wrong. J: No, no you can't. There's no wrong and right. It's all mind stuff or labeling... And so coming out had to happen in that way, too, because that was what you had to do... You can't be responsible for people's reactions; that's got nothing to do with you, nothing, so don't take them on. It's got nothing to do with you. Let people have their opinions, they're very welcome to them. Let them work it out from where they're at. And we don't have the right to interfere with other people's opinions really. Really we don't... Let it play out the way it's going to play out; we have enough to do managing ourselves, do you know ? M: Well I think because I made a judgment about myself in the first place, then I put myself in a kind of hate-me place, or needed something, not right so, 'You really shouldn't be here', because I don't want to face that in myself maybe. J: Yeah. But if you're invited there then go, huh ? M: Show up... J: Absolutely show up; because it's where the journey brought you – there's a coming around full circle, to see who you are now... M: There is a sense of that definitely... J: [… even though it hasn't all been resolved.] The woman who left – just something in the 'I' story needs closure there. M: Yeah, right. J: So you've got to go. You've got to go really just to get closure and just to be there... and like, 'Yeah, this is how my life went.' So be it, no judgment at all, nothing going on at all. If you leave early, you leave early; but just going, there's something there... the 'I' will make [problems] if you don't go, where if you go there's closure for a whole loop of life. M: Yeah. J: Yeah. Running regrets is a total waste of energy, a total waste... M: Total waste of time... if only, you know ? If only I went to another thing, a similar thing... I have this feeling going as well, 'Oh, I did the [whole] thing myself'. I said to someone who's a contemporary, "Oh, you know I fucked off that time I never came back." She said, "Sure, I didn't show up for lots of things, and then I shot my mouth off and got into..." It made me feel much better, you know ? We were able to laugh. So that's great, Jackie, thanks so much. J: Yeah, breaking the rules. Breaking the rules... if you can get rid of that whole story, there will be a bit of freedom. 'I'm not supposed to break the rules,' is all in your head. There's no rules; there are no rules. It's only going to happen the way it's going to happen, and the rules are superimposed by your own conditioning. There are no rules. M: Even though I thought I broke the rules... J: Of course, because you had made them, and then of course you're either gone to keep them or break them; and then we'll feel bad if we break them. But of course life is going to make you break them if it's going to bring you towards truth. Of course you have to break them. That one thing has to start falling down, you see, whereas if you keep with the rules, well then you're just a slave of fear. 'I can't break the rules because the consequences are too high.' OK, that's somebody who's afraid of change, and they'll stay in that realm. But life is making you break all the rules. So see that the rules are your own making, and so breaking them is the flip side of that. Throw the whole thing out. M: Yeah, exactly. J: There are no rules at all. M: No, yeah. J: There are no rules at all. There really aren't rules. The only place there are rules as sort of guidelines according to the laws of the land. There's guidelines there, and you can break them and get away with it too, generally. M: What would be an example of guidelines ? J: 'Don't park there' 'Drive on the left-hand side of the road'... They're the only rules that are around really. M: Yeah, but they're guidelines to be kept... J: They're just guidelines to bring a bit of order so we can all share a small space. That's about as far as rules go. M: Yeah, right. That's great. J: And let it stop there. The rest of it in your head; throw it out. M: Yeah, right. J: So watch them when they come up – if 'I shouldn't...' is running, say, 'Hold on, there's no such rules...'. M: I have lots coming up when I'm [in my head]... J: Leave them all there; cast them aside... because there's a great closure there. You can leave all of that behind you when you walk out of here today. M: Yeah, I can feel that... J: Yeah, there's an opportunity there... done, closed and off you go. M: There's something about acceptance, you know, for the 'little me', the younger me – I see that. Compassion if I allow... J: Yeah, wasn't she brave, you know ? ... You had to break the rules, and that's very painful in the beginning. But now see... none of this is needed any more, really. Rules and breaking them – throw the whole lot out together. M: Really helpful, thank you. Thanks so much. J: Yeah, you're welcome. N: ... [I'm wondering about] being in a sleep-like state and incubating in that, and about finishing this and just dropping it and getting out of the mind... [thought processes, procrastination, weariness and stuff that I have] is also conditioning... you say you're going to ring somebody and the mind is saying, 'Oh, but you promised them'. You get into a big story and of course they're not even expecting a call, and you got that big story running, you know... it's just mad... I've got a huge amount of free time now... and part of me says the Nisargadatta approach of keeping the attention [off yourself], keeping the attention on being what you are and staying in that, resting there... There's a sense of really the word 'incubating' – that's what I wanted to check with you that, in a sense, if you stay here that's going to [bring] up a lot of stuff, or do we have to be actively looking at... The idea of spiritual bypassing... I had an idea before that just simply go to peace, stay there, and that stuff will clear; but then there's a sense maybe that you have to go back and kind of clear the road, you know, empty the chalice so that you can fill - that idea. So this is what I wanted to explore with you... With the free time you're going around and you're still in the body... somebody used the word 'emptiness' about that, in the sense that there's nothing happening, and you're in the world... and still kind of identified, and even physically carrying this big body around... it's like waiting for a bus maybe... waiting for your real true self to overcome you, or whatever word you'd like to use. And basically my approach has been, wherever possible, I'm drawn to sit a lot, to sit in the quiet and allow that to... And another thing that struck me... N- was often praying for, looking for help from this... it reminded me of Catholic conditioning, you know, the way you pray for something to help you when you're in difficulty... But N- is not the reality at all; N- is looking for help for N-. Often people are looking for help for themselves, but yet themselves as they see it is not the real self at all. J: No, that's just a play of 'I'. N: Yeah, so drop that... just abandon it N-, and rest as you are. [Just let all that stuff that arises] be and, as Nisargadatta says, persistently be as you are, keep the attention here... J: OK. [No two paths are the same.] Some people have to chisel away and chisel away and chisel away... and, man, it seems unending; and pop!, and 'Holy Moses, what was all that about ?' There was a chipping away at the 'I' story running full on. Now, the only thing is, whatever makes sense to you, do it. If there is one percent of the smell of denying issues by 'remaining as what you are', then you have to go out and do the work. If there's a smell of, 'No, no, I'm just going to leave that there and hope that the separate self will burn itself out. I am observing that this is painful and maybe it will go away, and anyway I prefer to stay here.' Now, if you playing that game – bullshit, go out and do the work. N: Got you. J: But if there's a natural pull of attention within, 'It presents as real; it seems like it needs to be worked out', with the comment, 'I've given it too much attention already'... then it's down to integrity – you totally have to get integrity around this, to totally know that... no matter what presents, it's all just crap of the 'I'; it's all more of that story. If that's totally seen through, if there's an integrity feel around that, then absolutely stay inside and let it incubate. Only in this situation of total integrity will the burning up of the 'I' story happen organically. Whereas if you bring one percent of denial of the outside crap, if you're playing a little game, no burning up of the belief in separation will happen, no matter how much you stay in the Self. N: And how do you smell out the 'I' in that context, do you know... the sense of... lots of peace and ease... and then going back and dealing with the world, too, and whatever has to be done... and still having a lot of bubbling up of 'I' stories about, you know, nothing dramatic... that one could really reject, but just the whole shitload of stuff that's there... do I need to go into my thoughts and how I felt about that and this, and then... all the weariness and boredom around [all that]... just 'stay here' seemed to be the sense of that – let that bubble away and don't give it any juice... J: OK, then you're fine; then stay inside, stay inside... If you have enough distance [to say], 'I wonder if I should explore it...' then don't go near it – that's mind saying, 'Can I be distracted by this ? Will I play with this story for a little bit ?' That's what's going on there. If it's like, 'I have no option but to go into this story,' then go; then go. N: [Speaks about a television program about St. Francis' way of life, and apparently the dichotomy of self-sufficiency masking self-isolation from the world as a means of self protection vs. surrender of self to God's care while remaining in the world.] J: You know, when there's a pulling away from life like that... and it feels like it's organically happening, then let it happen; it's fine, let it happen. It will change again. Life is going to use you again. It will start up again... from the "cave" phase. Your path will be tested again by the universe to see, because nobody gets to stay in the cave forever – it's very rare. It will get tested. N: I suspected that. J: Yeah, so life will start again, and sometime somebody will ask you to do something... or the point of being of use to the world will rise up – that's usually the one that's like, 'Oh my god, something is going to use this form,' and you'll say 'yes' to doing something voluntary, and off you go. And there'll be a testing to see what's established; how stable is the attention resting at home... has it stabilized or not; that will be tested. N: I wouldn't say it's fully stabilized. [It's kind of like I still have a foot on each bank of the river, resting in the Self on one side, the pull towards the world on the other; and I'm kind of hanging out in the space of what should I do about putting both feet on the side of the Self.] J: OK, instead of waiting... you see, you're not waiting for anything; so waiting implies there's a waiting for something. N: ... that the N- character will sort of deflate or diminish... J: But that won't be seen; who's that going to be seen by ? N: By nothing... J: But nothing can't see anything, because there's nothing apart from the nothingness. You see it would take N- to see his own dissolving, but you can't see his own death because you'd have to be there after his death. N: So he's pretending he wants to kill himself... J: He is, yeah. So the whole idea of waiting is just perpetuating N-. Do you see, the waiting is keeping N- alive, because N- is the one who's waiting. N: Well it goes back to where we started... [I know who I am, yet the story keeps bubbling up, and maybe I'll wait for clarity of some type...] J: Move away from waiting, and go for patience. And I'm talking about patience itself, not being 'patient with' – it's not an external; it's patience itself... as an attitude. Pare it right down so that there is a patience, and in that way it stops the 'waiting for' or the expectation – it stops that whole drama. N: A sense of 'OK, everything is fine...' J: Absolutely, no expectation, nothing in the future. But then there's just a feeling of patience... all the time, and nothing's going to happen. Nothing's going to happen; it can't happen; it can only happen to N-, and N- isn't real, so what's going to happen ? So let there be patience. When the waiting comes up... that's disastrous; it's just N- running hot and heavy... All the noticing [you speak of] is by N-. But patience itself – cultivate it. Cultivate patience itself, so that the waiting story has no place, so it can be seen as another N- story. Do you see ? And patience has some kind of a softness and an OKness with whatever, and it doesn't need anything to happen to N-; and it has no judgment about N-, physical, emotional, nothing... it's like, it's almost too much attention to put any into the N- story.... It takes separation to be running any ideas about N- at all. Don't go there. N- doesn't exist. There's just what is, and so no further labeling.... Then where's waiting, huh ? Do you see ? Waiting is way out there in the story; forget it. But cultivate patience as a stepping stone until the waiting fizzles out. N: Thank you. M: Just a question or two... just lots of stuff around my work... that kind of like has gone... and I'm glad it's gone, but my ego is enormous around this, or there's just lots of stuff around this. All of my friends who are in that world, the alternative world that I was in – they're all kind in that world of manifesting more and more, and further and further. And it's such a charge for my ego, and my mind says that I'm hiding... [tears]... that I'm using this as a copout or something, you know ? I was with [S-] last week, and it was like being frozen; I see that I'm not frozen, but... and then it's freeing when I hear that actually nothing matters, I don't have to do anything; but I can use that as a copout, you know ? But I suppose that it has such a big charge for my ego is the thing... that, 'Oh, I'll have to come back'. You know, it's like I don't want to come back, or something. And to go back into that and have to feel all the... J: Come back and reincarnate, or come back into the world ? M: Come back into the world... it's like everybody's passed you out, and that you have to go back; you know its like [this game where] you have to [start over]. J: Do you remember 6 or 7 years ago, well maybe 3 or 4, and everybody was buying a second home, and it could have been in Turkey or it could have been in Wexford, and if you weren't buying a second home, you know there was something wrong with you. If you hadn't an investment property, there was something wrong with you.... And do you see what happened ? [economic collapse] There is a huge pressure in society always, to go on and to go on and to go on, and it's completely and totally desire-driven... it's driven on the fact which is only a belief that something external in the world can make you happy. Now in that, the flip side of it is, if you're not part it, you're a loser, because that's the big [hook] that will keep you in there. M: Yeah, well, I think my ego sometimes has, 'Well, I'm on this path, so...' I think my ego says that even, you know, 'I'm special' or on a different path. J: Yeah, I'm wiser, 'I've already kind of woken up a bit... more than them.' M: Yeah. J: So try being a loser. M: That's what it's pushing up obviously... J: Absolutely, let yourself be a loser, or whatever it is, that you missed the boat... M: Yeah, missed the boat... J: And go right into that feeling, and let it up and... have a good laugh at it. But you're going to have to feel it first... because it's quite likely that that judgment was running in M- ... M: It was there all the time... J: That you're a failure if you're not going to make it... M: Yeah, a failure... that was there all the time any way.... See my mind hooks into... this kind of world of manifestation, and things happen easy and all – it's like they're all in that, and I'm like... that's like the same as this; it doesn't seem like the world of desire, but it is I suppose. J: It is, of course. M: Yeah, it's quite deceptive that, because I know sometimes I have a thought, and then I see the thing happen, so it's quite deceptive... that's the world of desire out there. J: Yes, it's when the 'I' claims it, 'Oh, my thought created that' – that's the sticky bit. Let it be created how it's created. If it's your thought or somebody else's, doesn't matter; don't be attributing cause.... You see that the 'cause' is owned by the 'I'. Manifestation happens all the time, just don't claim the 'I' as the one who created it. There's a gazillion causes for everything, everything, and it was going to happen anyway. But the 'I' just claims it – that's the hook in manifestation, it's an 'I' factor. And not that this is better, but this is bullshit too actually, what we're doing here. This is equally just an 'I'... So if the ego wants to hang on... M: Ego will find anything... J: It will find anything. This is still an 'I' story; this is still happening in the movie. We could just as well be talking about 'manifest your destiny' here... same thing. It's all still 'I' garbage; none of it matters at all, so there's no hierarchy at all, in the movie – it's all a bloody movie.... It's all illusion; it's all the playground of the 'I'. Nothing is more 'fine' than something else, nothing; it can't be. M: I came out of the cinema the other night, and it was just so weird. When I go the cinema now, it's like I really... anyway, I came out and I really felt like, I really saw that it was all a movie. And I was driving back to my house, and I just was laughing, and it was like, 'There's no point in driving back to my house; it's so silly. Why don't I go to that house, why don't I go to that house...' It was so quiet after the movie. ... And I just saw the ludicrousness of, 'I think I belong in that family, in that...' I just saw the stupidity... J: It's nuts, yes... all these codes. And you have no option but to do what you're doing; and if that means go back into the world, you'll have to go back into the world. And if it means just moving this kind of self-judgment because you've opted out of it... when you move this, whichever way it goes, it's the only way you're going to have to go anyway. You've no option, but the mind will label 'opting out', or this behavior means... or this step means... if you can see that, then stop it. None of it means anything – none of it – my house, your house... none of it means anything, right down to that. Do you see ? There's only just the unfolding, but mind is busy doing labeling... frozen, not frozen, the right thing, the wrong thing, opting out, denial... do you know ? M: Or 'they're better than' – that's what it is, you know, that's what's to be felt by the ego – 'I'm worse than'... J: Yeah, go into that 'loser' thing, and that 'I didn't make it'. Go into that, that 'I just didn't make it'. Go into it, and feel it, and let it come up, and send it off. 30Failure is fine; it's wonderful, why not ? Success happens for some, and failure happens for some, but it's all within dualism, so give yourself a break... because if you were hooked into success, you probably just need to feel the failure of it. Just feel it, and let it run through – it's just an experience; let it be had. Just let it be had; 'tis grand. It'll pass, and then that story will be, 'Huh, what was that about ?' It's about nothing, you see. M: Yeah, I was hooked into success. J: Yeah, you were hooked into success, so you've got to let yourself feel the opposite, so that both can be cleared off... to get free of both, you know; there's a freedom when both are gone. M: Yeah, especially if you have to go back into the world to do anything... J: ... you probably wouldn't fit into the world any more, you know ? But still, the world will use you in some way. It does that, and that's all right. But the world can use you [even though] you don't fit in. Let that come... M: What do you mean by 'fitting in' ? J: You know that feeling of being part of a group, of being part of something... that has to fall away. So if the universe moves you to be engaged again some way, [most likely it won't look like fitting into a group or a work situation – it takes too much effort]... because 'fitting in' must come from a belief that you're separate... it can give rise to a feeling of being connected to something bigger again – this is like a tiny little echo of being what you are, which is all of it – total inclusion of everything. So this little taste of inclusion when you're part of a social group or something, it's a little comfort zone – that's not good enough at all. So for that to blow up, you've got to feel the opposite of it. So if the universe uses you again, let it use you, but don't be part of a group in any way; don't be part of a group. M: OK, yeah that's been the comfort zone, groups. J: Yeah, don't be part of a group. M: I can feel that. I went to a dinner thing recently, and I was really uncomfortable going... but then there was about two hours when I was separate, and hardly anything needed to be said; but I was just staying with it and staying with it, and after the two hours, then something just opened... J: And engagement happened ?... M: ... but I didn't do the 'fitting in' thing. J: [Just look for the seeking of a 'comfort zone' in whatever circumstances, whether at work or in a satsang community.]... because in disconnecting from one group, which is what you're doing, your mind will try to, 'Well, let's just keep this vibe going, and we'll connect to another group, and we'll continue the old modus operandi'. That's what it will do. So I'm just saying, 'Red flag, red flag'.... Just don't let it hook in like that, you know ? Stay inside; stay inside. M: OK, thanks. J: Yeah.   Listen to this audio satsang : Dublin, Ireland, May 15th, 2010

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Download this satsang transcribe :   Jac: Good evening, everybody. Welcome to satsang... Let everything go... without effort, just an easeful dropping. And now, let the one who is doing the dropping – let that one dissolve. There's so much you can do; you can surrender, you can do this, the 'I' can manage the 'I', you can work on attachment, work on this and that, and then you can be observant, and then you can step back from that and place attention where the next thought is coming from, or do self inquiry, and who's the one who's doing all that anyway ? Who's the one who's doing all that ? And how does one get rid of that one ? Who gets rid of that one ? So let it dissolve, huh ? Just let it dissolve... into that which has no state, into that which is outside of all of it, into that which isn't looking for "What's next... something will [feel] better than this," into that which knows nothing about that dialogue... And somehow, something is perfectly fine... until another thought pops up, "Oh, I want more." It's just another thought being listened to. Let it be that no thought will do it for you. See through that one. See through it; that there's no thought that's going to do it for you; there's no technique that's going to do it for you. There's nothing that's going to do it for you. That's just how the world works, with that outside 'hit'. The external things that are there to achieve, or that will make it better, sure they can't ultimately do it for you. They can't. It's just the next thing, and the next thing, and the next thing. That's fine, if you want to stay on the roundabout; that happens too. So what about seeing through that, seeing through the repetitious loop of what's next and what's next and what's next, and that these are just thoughts – they're just thoughts. So if there's a distance from those thoughts, what then ? The one who has a distance from those thoughts is a thought, too. Where're you going to go now ? Where're you going to go now, huh ? Dissolve anyway. Surrender anyway. In a way, it's kind of jumping off a cliff with no parachute, and it's all black down there, – no visibility, it's a bit like that. And it's fine. It's just that in this territory, at the end game of what I'm talking about, there's nothing for the 'I' to hold onto, and it will use anything, but there's nothing for it to hold onto. And let that be fine; let that be fine. But for some people, fear kicks in there, because that's the really potent one. And that can keep you doing a dance for a while. Fear is pretty powerful. It's just another thought. It's equally useless. So beyond all of it, beyond all of it, your attention is naturally at home, instead of going out to come back, going out to come back, going into a thought only to say, "Oh, that's a thought; I'll observe and come back again." Hold on, it didn't go out at all; it didn't go out at all. That's the natural state; that's what we call 'being awake'. It's so simple, you miss it, you see... so simple. It's got no fireworks, and it's got no... if it's not exciting, it's not sexy, you know ? So it's easier to keep seeking, then, to keep looking for the next hit, because at least there's some bit of juice in that. So we just keep searching, ... keep trying to improve myself, and keep reading and buying new books and going to new speakers and bladdy, bladdy, bla. So do you want out, or don't you ? Do you just want to do the improving yourself and fixing yourself, or actually... can you see through that ? There's nothing to be gained from waking up, nothing; there's no 'I' who's happy once the truth is seen; there's just no 'I'. Nothing to cling to, nothing at all. And somehow it's perfectly fine; but not from the perspective of, "Oh, I'm happy." It's like, "Huh ?" It doesn't make sense; doesn't make sense... So I suppose I'm saying, be honest with yourself, be honest with yourself. Where is it at ? Are you hooked into the experiencing of what life can give you, what healing can give you, what discovering who you are not can give you ? You're just discovering who you are not, you know, in watching the mind and all that – you're just discovering who you are not... just seeing beliefs you had about yourself... but there's no 'you' – so they're just beliefs that you're just running as if they've got something to do with you. That's going nowhere, really, at the end of the day. Do you see, you can't be going anywhere ? So beyond all of it, beyond all of it, is there a hunger there for THAT; is there a pull towards THAT, because maybe there isn't even a hunger, but there might be a pull ? For Jac, there was a pull; it was, like, "Oh Jesus, what's this thing that's pushing me like a JBC from behind", you know, this juggernaut thing pushing. But not knowing where in the name of God it was leading to, it made no sense at all... wanting freedom... there was nothing out there, I was being pushed from behind. So it can happen any which way. But get out of the way and let it happen anyway. Just kind of get out of your own way. Get out of your own way – what you think you are is a distraction from what you really are. And when you get fed up of cruising around, and chewing and re-chewing, and visiting and re-visiting, and fixing and sorting what you think you are, just drop it. But there's no prize – just drop it... And somehow freedom arises, and somehow everything is just, I don't know, can only be how it is, and somehow that's always perfect... because there's just nothing at play to say it should be any other way – because it's all you, and it can only be the way it is. So let it get simple, because it's simple. Anyway... there's a chair here, and it's an open invitation if anybody would like to talk. S: So, before we started, I went outside and I found this one rock which was black-and- white speckled – it was very pretty; it was heart-shaped, it was a little misshapen, and that was my mom. And then I found a fine piece of shale – that was my dad. Found my way down to the lake, and... thanked them for the love they tried to give me... and told them that I'm not carrying their pain any more. And so I... did this for my father first, and I threw the rock out – it was a smaller rock, it made a big splash... and it made these big circles, and I just waited until waves of the ripples just washed back towards me and settled down. And then I did a ritual for my mother, and threw that rock out, a bigger rock, and my mother was very charismatic and powerful and angry – it made a very little splash, very little ripples at all... it wasn't so big at all. And there's no claims that are being made about that, just that... thank you for the suggestion; it was just exactly what was needed here. J: Yeah, good... And now ? S: I have no idea. J: Happy days ! S: Whateve; and I mean that in the most deep, sincere way. And in that short guided meditation, the idea of leaping into that void was received very differently than it was in our meeting this afternoon; it's like OK, OK. J: Beautiful... Let's see what life unfolds next. S: Exactly, exactly. J: Yeah, yeah. Every story that has a beginning has an end. And sometimes the end needs to be deliberate. There needs to be an actual closure – that's why we have divorce papers and things like this; sometimes we just need closure. You know ? S: When they passed away a few years ago, there never felt like there was closure – I wonder why... they never, my pack feels a little lighter, too. J: Yeah, yeah... energetically, you're quite different now... S: Thank you. J: You're very welcome. J: Hi, M-. M: Hi. I went with the pull. I don't really have a question. It's about just going with the pull. J: OK. So what goes with the pull ? M: There's just the pull. J: There's just the pull... yes... there's just the pull, and even that... M: Is just a noticing of it. J: Exactly, it's a thing that's noticed. Then it gets so faint that it's hardly even noticed... because there's always movement in this realm of change; there's always a pull someplace. But there comes a time when the pull feels strong, and then a yielding to it, and then, when the yielding to it is seen to be that there's nobody yielding to it, well then, the pull is just a movement – it's just, well, it doesn't feel any stronger than anything else, because there's only that movement in the realm of change. It's always moving, everything is moving, the walls of this house are moving every moment. Everything's moving, but yet we call it a 'pull' because you know there's something else flowing, that the 'I' is trying to, "Let me interfere with this in some way, or...". So, even let the pull get thinner, right where there's just movement in this realm - of course, there's always movement. The one who yielded to it, or would go against it, or notices it, is just another thought that passed in consciousness – nothing to do with you; it's just another thought that passed in consciousness. M: So to simplify this, it seems like it's not even noticed at all. And when it is noticed, it's just not happening to me, it's just noticed. J: Yes, let the noticing be a happening in consciousness, yes. No thought has to create an 'I', so there's no identification – a thought will not create an 'I'. [Long pause] M: So I feel like I have to comment... it's been coming up again. It feels like... I can't help but use words from a perspective... just allowing that to be and not going with it. When we were sitting just now, that little movement... that little bit is like, should I go and sit down now ? So, I'm just checking with you... if that sounds right to you ? J: That's just the mind thinking, "Oh, oh, maybe I should kick in and control here and do something." So what if you don't sit down, so what if you sit there for an hour and a half... Right ? Everything that's going to come up for everybody, is none of your business, because they [and you] are not even individuals. So, if you are right that everybody else is an individual here, you'll say, "Oh, my God, I'm not giving other people a chance." What other people do you see ? What other people ? But the belief in separation will make you think that, "Well, they all believe they're separate. Therefore, they have feelings that I should be managing." M: Yeah. J: There are only thoughts running through consciousness – they don't make people; they don't make individuals. They don't – even if they're believed, they don't make individuals. They're just believed thoughts – separation does not exist. It's just not real; it's just another thought. Do you see ? M: Yeah. J: So if you sat here for an hour and a half, there are no people who wouldn't like it or would like it. M: That already feels... like, not believing in the 'me' that needs to move – if that's not believed, all the rest doesn't arise. J: Yes. Yes. That's right. If there's no 'I', the rest of it sure falls down. So let's see, let's see if there'll be a movement to get off the chair or not. Let's see what happens. Let's see. [Laughter] Maybe there will and maybe there won't – that's fine either way. Because what can happen ? The only thing that's going to happen is the only thing that can happen. So, if we're tuned in to linear time, we imagine that it hasn't happened yet. So here we are, so here we are, thinking that there is a future that we can control... what a load of crap. You know, we can't – whatever is going to happen is already all over anyway. But the belief in linear time is imagining that it's going to happen, and that I have every ability to control it. M: That, too, is another layer away from... as soon as I believe that there's a 'me' that has a perspective... just a simple knowing of anything, actually. J: Yes, knowing of anything. Knowing of anything needs a 'knower', and that's a personal 'I', one who knows; and, my, the ego loves to know; it loves to know, yeah. You're not alone. But anything it knows must be temporary, and therefore not real. And it must have its opposite. I mean, the world was flat for a very long time. It will have its opposite... opposite to everything, so anything you know, you can know for sure, [that while] we give all this credit to a fact, it's still only a fact until it's disproven. M: Right. Things are the way they are, no matter what perspective... astrophysics, whatever, they're just perspectives. J: Yes, they're just perspectives that are held, yes, within a broader realm of something that is temporary and constantly changing. There's no solid footing there for any fact, actually. But if it's stable for long enough, we call it a fact, in order to grasp something, because knowing gives a bit of ease and comfort. M: So that's what people call 'reality', right, the consensus ? J: Yes. M: OK. J: Hi. Q: So... I've been wanting to test this belief in individual people, to see what it's made of. I'm just being with what's happening, and considering what constitutes this belief; like, for example, right now I'm looking at you and see kind of a serious expression... and there's some thoughts going on, "I must look really serious or concerned or something, that she's reflecting that back," or something like that. J: OK... so thoughts are running, which are results of thoughts that go out, and assumptions about those thoughts. Is that it ? So, I'm just telling you back what I heard, because I'm just trying to track this. So there was thoughts about Jac having the expression, and then interpretation placed on that, and then that gives rise to another set of thoughts. Q: Possibly, yeah. J: OK... and that's how it works – mind goes out and it interprets a situation completely based on the set of conditions that are running at the moment, whatever... wherever or whatever is the makeup at that moment. A perspective is taken on something, and it's taken to be true. And back it goes into the mind and then, "OK, what am I going to do with this information ?" and let's make myself be OK in all of it; because it's always about the 'I' being OK in it. Let's rearrange it so that I feel OK, or that I have some control, or that I'm accepted or something – some agenda is always there for the 'I'; that's what it does. And so then, that gives rise to the next action. Do you see that set of thoughts ? Q: I'm not really connecting with the words you're saying right now. J: Yeah, that's all right. Q: I'm finding that it really just takes a lot of slowing down to observe this that's happening, this creation of... the impression of separation. J: That's OK. In looking at the idea of separation, many people get caught in the idea of replacing separation with unity – 'it's all connected, it's all one'. Don't go there. That's a trap. So it's not about replacing the concept of separation with a concept of unity. That's the same thing; hang on to 'separation'; at least it's familiar. [Laughter] So be sure not to look for 'unity'. OK ? Unity is not the truth, either. Q: So what's happening to me right now, is that there's a lot of words, and I'm really not processing them. J: I know that. That's all right. Q: And I think what I need to do is get away from here, sit down in my chair and just observe and not be in dialogue right now. J: OK. Or you can sit there and say nothing, if you want. Q: [Really ?] J: Oh yeah, but if I talk, take no notice... You see, it's all fine... So, I'm gonna keep going... OK. Then... spiritual practice is very often ... With the idea of separation, very often it's like, "Well, I don't like that idea", and [mind...] will grab the opposite – that's all it will do, it will grab the opposite, and we'll just replace one concept with another. And the show goes on, and that's the law of opposites playing out. So, the unity and the oneness stuff – bin it; don't go there at all, because it won't be enough. Unity will be the same thing as the separation thing – you'll spin that out, too. Just see the separation as a belief, or see unity as a belief, whichever one is running for you. The unity idea, that interconnectedness of everything, you know, it tends to be something that reveals itself for many people along the way. You see, "Oh, my God, I had this spiritual experience, and I was part of a flower," you know, you hear that a lot. If it happens, it happens; and if it doesn't, it doesn't. For some, it's part of mind losing its limitations, so it goes onto that concept just as it's expanding its perspective. If it doesn't click - fine, totally fine. The key really is to see the belief in separation. The belief in separation – is it real, or is it something that's just believed for a very long time ? Really just see – is that just a bought idea, the whole separation thing ? Don't replace it with unity. We're not talking about unity. But the mind will immediately [say], "Oh, yeah, we're all one." Oh... vomit... it's really not what I'm talking about. It's not about replacing one concept with another; but seeing through the concepts of separation – see through it. It's part of the functioning of creating the 'I' that we got when we were kids, so that we function in a separate world in order to have an experience – that's it, that's it. If you can handle that point, fine... So in that one going, actually, it's all right to see that, "Well, if there is no separation, if separation is just a belief, if it's just a belief, then what does that mean ?" And go behind all that, to where you don't know what it means; but there's a feeling. There's something... feeling is even too strong; there's something else... there's some knowing, some something... but you can't quite name it, you know ? Go behind that level of separation, that concept. You see, in dropping your belief, it's not about getting another idea; it's not about working it out. It's just about seeing the lie that was believed, which is called, I don't know, 'conditioning' ? And when it's seen, that's it – it's not replaced with anything else. It's not even replaced with understanding. We say, "Oh yeah, there's a clear understanding." It's like – too much, too much, too much ! Q: And so, can we see through the illusion before the shift happens ? J: Every version of it is possible... yes. Every version. There's no direct sequence; there's a general trend, like everything.... And they say, you know, that once you see through the illusion, it's seen forever. ... [But you may just] get glimpses; and you get a glimpse, and you get a glimpse... and the bloody thing is not solid, just not solid, do you know ? T: Yeah, there are a lot of glimpses. Hi, I'm T-. J: Hi, T-. T: A lot of glimpses have just happened now. That's what's been happening... I'll just be walking to work, and it just feels so ordinary, and cool at the same time... and all these ideas are getting shaky, even the ones we're talking about. So that's what's happening. J: OK. And ? T: And ? So it's this whole thing about the 'I' – is it real; is it not real ?... the question just keeps coming up. And it's just what's happening. J: OK, when the question comes up, what happens ? T: The breath... and there's usually some idea... oh, right now there's a pause – when the question comes up, there's a pause... and then maybe there's something I think about, but there's always a pause. The idea that's also shaky is, "What can I do about this ?" And the only thing that comes to me is to rest in it. J: OK, so when the pause is happening, is the 'I' pausing ? T: There's just a pause. J: OK... may there be lots of pauses, huh ? The 'I' isn't a continuum, do you know ? The 'I' is dropped and picked up every time you buy a thought, every time there's a personal perspective of something. And sometimes, it's misunderstood that the 'I' is there all the time, buying this thought and buying that thought... let's fine tune that one now. The 'I' thought gets believed [pause]… gets believed [pause]… gets believed - there's loads of pauses. But the pauses... there's nothing aligned with the rest that's in the pause. Do you see ? But as the 'I' gets weaker, there's a noticing... that there's a pause. Do you know ? T: And it's just OK, you know ? J: Yeah, it is OK... the 'I' thought doesn't create the 'I' at all – it doesn't need to. T: It's just an 'I' thought. J: It's just an 'I' thought. It's just a bald 'I' thought – that's all it is. T: It's just like any other thought. J: Just any other thought; it's just an old thought... that's all. T: Yeah... so I had a question about... I did email you... about belief... it's a thought. Is it more than a thought... because there are thoughts I don't believe. So I believe in the 'I'; I still believe in the 'I'. But there are other things I don't believe. So what's the difference ? J: The 'I' believes and the 'I' doesn't believe, so they're of equal value... whether you believe it or not believe it. T: It's the same. J: It's the same. It's the same. I'm interested in the 'I' who believes or doesn't believe. Is there a belief in that 'I' ? And there can't be a 'no belief' in that 'I', because it takes an 'I' to have a belief. Let it all be stripped away; let it all be burnt off... all of it... all of it – no big deal.... Let there be no currency at all to the sentence, "I believe" or the sentence, "I don't believe." - let there be no currency. T: It's just a passing thought... and it's OK. J: Yes... no stickiness. T: And whatever's going to happen is going to happen. J: Totally, regardless of beliefs or not beliefs. It's just something the 'I' plays with in its way of connecting to thoughts. It's got nothing to do with you, nothing. T: Thank you. J: Hi. Q: Hi... so, it's seen that, even right now it's all thought. But there's still lots of my mind trying to chew on things... this and that. And then I go, "Oh, the one noticing that is still a thought." But it seems to be draining me somehow... I have some nervousness... I love you... [there's] a burning up sensation. Yeah, so, it's all seen that that's just running, right ? That there's still some pull of energy, like some energy going to the thought, even though it's seen through. So... it's just got to wear itself or something. And, with that, the body's so exhausted, like hours and hours of sleeping... but there's work to be done apparently. And then the mind comes in and judges that there's something wrong with that, but the body's resting, it seems. And then this whole thing of... noticing what pulls me out [a bit], you know - what I don't want to get entangled in is raising a child. All of a sudden everything's kind of been pulled away, in partnership, and work, and health it feels like, too. And my tears earlier, I don't know where they come from... but there's this knowing that it's OK somehow. Something's still sticky there... something's draining me. Yeah. Something's draining this body, you know ? I know that nothing can be done... nothing can be done... Who's crying... who's crying ? J: Crying is happening, that's all. Crying happens. Q: It's happy five minutes ago. J: Yes, it goes like that. And good health and poor health, and high stamina and low stamina, and it happens like that, too. Q: My mind's trying to make a story about me being tired... what's going on, too much sleeping... too much has to be done in the outside world, it seems, and it's not getting done, and I know that, even though that's playing in my mind, I know that it's just happening. So it seems like there needs to be some sort of... nothing needs to be done. It's the mind that's seeing, you know, this is what's getting me caught up so much lately. J: OK... with less energy, with the extra sleeping, can you still manage ? Q: ... the minimum, yeah. J: OK, but you can still manage to put food on the table, rear your child, and stuff. Q: It was not a problem until recently. It's getting towards the end of the resources. And as that gets closer, the body is getting more tired... I have this thought, "OK, what if the vital force is just running out ?" And can I let that be OK ? And it's just the mind again... there's no way out. J: But you were never in. Q: No, never in... J: No, you were never in. Q: I feel frustration that there's no way out. J: But you were never in, so what wants to get out ? Q: Bloody hell. J: It's just an idea running, that you're in. On a practical level, there might be a physical fitness... there might something that's just run down, thyroid or something. There really might be something physical going on. That might be worth checking out with, I don't know, a kinesiologist or somebody who can just cut through the layers and embrace the fact that, no, this is a spiritual vibrational shift and it has you wrecked. OK, you take something natural for it. I think it might be practical to go to somebody who has the perspective of seeing all the bodies, do you know, just make sure that there's nothing physical going on. Because an allopathic practitioner will... send you down a route that doesn't embrace what this could be, which is part of the realignment energetically. Q: That's what that feels like... I [just had] blood tests, but... J: No, that wouldn't yield it... but there is energetic support, because you've got a kid to rear, and you've got stuff to do, so we have to kind of balance the 'I' at this point... and let that be OK. There's a time when it makes sense to totally surrender everything. And if life falls apart, so what, I'll deal with that if life falls apart. But when you've got a child, that's the difference. That is the pain, that this is... it's not that easy. You can let everything just go against the wind if you've no dependent; but if you're a primary parent... then there is something out there in the universe that will assist you... because you need to be a parent right now. That's just what's happening. So something will come in, which will not be a distraction, and which will not be a denial, but which will enable that to happen. And if the body needs energetic support for that, fine. Fine. Because that's what life is presenting, and that has to be in some way part of it. Do you know ? So, in letting everything go, we can't go into denial, because only the 'I' will deny, do you see ? Q: I'm... conscious that sometimes that comes in... J: Yeah, and so it's the fine-tuning of, OK, letting everything go, but something is going to have to rear that child, do you know ? Q: I never had issues with work in my life. I'm always very providing. Now all of a sudden, every avenue... everything's falling through, even simple things like babysitting... It's like knowing there's no work coming somehow. It's like I used to always feel something coming; the intuition was so strong, "I can feel that's coming." [And now I] feel there's nothing coming. J: OK. Now deal with that. Q: Yes. J: Why can't there be a desert coming ? There's always been something coming; this is just the opposite of it. Q: ...desert, yeah. J: Fine. Fine. If a desert comes, a desert will come and a desert will go, and we'll find out what that's like. And if it brings new experiences to the 'I' - if they have to be had, let them be had. It's gonna dig up trust; it's gonna dig up patience. It's gonna dig up insecurity, the fear of no security. Fantastic ! What a wonderful way for all this stuff to come, whomp, belly up, to really test it, you know, really, really test what beliefs are running here. Perfect way for the universe to do it – strip you right down. Why not ? Q: I lived with a master in India for six months, and I brought H-, my daughter, and I gave away everything. There just came that pull, an intense pull to have nothing and go away. He always told me, "Forget her, too" and I couldn't... it was like, it didn't make sense. He says, "How many times has she pulled you in ? Let her go, too", and it never felt right, so I came home to raise her further. And so that's always been in my head – is that a belief, too ? It's like... I'm confused. J: OK. The thing with H- is to drop the attachment to her. Q: ...which is dropped. Both of us have no... it's like, we're together, and there's no need or attachment. J: So, if there's no attachment, it's fine, it's clean. Q: I'm just responsible to raise her and that's all that's seen. J: OK. What age is she ? Q: 16. J: OK. She's nearly there... just not yet. It's just a few more years of this place of where something is ready to go, but something else isn't. It's just the timing isn't that lined up. And timing can be not lined up... it's fine. It's only the attachment around letting go; it's only the attachment to your children – that's the sticky bit – raising children, not raising children; they're not the problem; it's the attachment that's the problem. Q: I can see if it were just me, and everything's gone, I don't give a shit. J: You'd be fine. I know you'd be fine. But something is needing some part of you to see what is it – H- is still in your life, so what is it that can be churned up, because there's still this role being played. It's fantastic. Q: It is, yes. J: Yes, it is fantastic. Q: I think almost the weight of it is what's making me so tired. J: Totally. Q: The weight of what to do. J: Yes. Sure what can you do ? What's happening is what's happening – that's it, no story. The story is what's painful. Q: Yes. J: No story... there's just frugal living for a while... so what, so what ? Q: It's easy in India... J: Yeah, it's easy in the West, too. I've done it here, too. Noticing... "Nah, I still don't have a car." It's fine. Yeah, so what ? You'll find a way around it, no problem. You'll find your way. Things might slow down. Q: It's really very simple. J: Yes... simple, basic slowing down... Q: There's no pull for anything, but what's happening now. J: Yes, yes. And have no ideas about what's happening, only what's happening. Drop the ideas about what's happening, because that's where the pain is. Let it get so simple – there's only just what's happening, moment to moment – not being in the moment, but just what's happening, do you know ? That's enough. Q: There are moments I see beyond all of it, do you know ? J: Sure, I know you do. Q: This one's a big one... security. J: Sure, it had to come up, do you know ? It's fine. See through it. It's just another head game. Q: It is. I can feel it in my head. J: Yeah, yeah, yeah... Q: Thank you. J: Yeah, it's fine, you know. It's fine. Q: Something wants to say something here; I don't know what it is. I can so relate. Oh my gosh, oh my God, my heart goes out to you. I've been there, and feel like I've been there for a thousand years, and lately I feel like... I'm not just walking into it; I've just been dropping and dropping and dropping stuff. But it's so... the desert just goes on and on and on. And... resistance comes up about, "OK, that's enough. OK, I get it now. OK, I'm dropping stuff, OK." You know, it's like, "Hello, get to the end of it." I mean, how long... so, I guess I need somebody to help me just drop down into whatever is still clinging... J: So what's the 'I' dropping ? What's it really doing all this time ? What's the habit it's developed, because it did... Q: Oh, you know, it'll go do all kinds of exploration... and dig up stuff and go, "Oh, do the work", you know, and then drop that and drop that... I mean, emotional baggage and garbage that I've clung to, and attachments, things that I'm attached to - family, finances, health, and all of it. All of it's up, and then "I'm OK with that. It's OK if I lose my house... I'm all right with that. What am I going to do; what, I'm going to stop living ? No." So it's like everything comes up, and then I drop it, but... J: So what motivates it just before you're dropping it ? What's going on before you're dropping it ? Q: I just sink into 'yes', or... J: And before that... before you start the dropping and the pulling back from it. I want to know what the hook is; how come you're in there ? What's going on; what's so juicy ? Q: I don't know. That's the question. Why so much drama about it ? Why is it all a great big deal ? Why not just dump it ? Let's just dump it. J: But you'd have no story then. You'd have no story. Your mind wouldn't have anything to chew on. You wouldn't have any project. You wouldn't have any feel-good factor when you dropped it. The idea of progress is a factor in spiritual advancement. As long as that has value; "I've processed that; I've processed that" – as long as all of that package is attractive; of course, the universe will forever give you stuff to clear and shift and heal and love... Q: That's what I'm worried about. J: Of course. Oh, it's infinite. The supply of that is infinite. It's infinite, because it's not about the issues. At a certain point, it's not about the issues. It's about that the issues keep the 'I' story going. The 'I' story will use anything, and it will use the spiritual path to keep itself going... So if there was just an OK-ness about whatever arose, but it wasn't claimed as 'my issue, my stuff, their stuff...'; it we didn't go there at all, and if whatever arose was just an arising, no comment, no ownership; if it's not made an issue of, is that too much of a leap ? Q: No... I can be there, not all the time, but I've had that experience. J: OK. Q: So let me give you an example. Today I was with my brother... all the parents are dying, the house is being sold, the stuff is being divided up -lots of drama, lots of positioning, and power plays. And so I've given it all up; I gave up all the stuff. I know I'm trying to give up the relationships, because that seems to be what I need to do... for it to come to some new place of being with them. And I'm pretty good a lot of the time, but today there was... Here's a story – a photograph album where there were no pictures of me left in there... it's almost as if I don't exist in this family – that's how I feel, I'm not really part of it. I mean I really am not part of it any more because I'm so different and so weird; I'm so strange to them. And so, something came up, and it was anger. And I was so with it for a long time, just fine; there was no resistance, it was good. And then when I went to leave today, there was an anger that came up. And I didn't care; I didn't care if it wasn't spiritual; I didn't care if it was nasty and judgmental. And I just let it run, and I just said, "Hell," you know ? And then it just sort of played itself out, and then it was sort of gone, and then I dropped it. So that's the kind of torture I seem to put myself through. J: OK. So... you know the idea of being spiritual and being non-judgmental, and being whole and free and, well... just put it in the dustbin. It's a load of rubbish. It's just the 'I' trying to be somebody that you think would be politically correct, or going someplace, or a very good... Just bin it; because the 'I' is so busy reinventing herself ... that's not what this is about at all. This is about seeing that the 'I' isn't real. But something has gotten caught in a loop, of where the 'I' isn't being seen that it's not real, but it's trying to hone itself down to be something that is approved of within a belief system you're running. ... Stop being so hard on yourself. It's all right to be angry. It's all right to be dysfunctional. Why not ? Be OK with all of it... even if it's being incorrect and obnoxious. Do the wrong thing; break your own rules. Break them all. You have yourself in a straight jacket, do you know ? Q: Yes, I get that right now. Thank you. Yeah. J: So, break the rules, and have fun. Do you know, have fun. Dip into the other side, the side that you've been avoiding so much, because in avoiding one set of behaviors, for sure there's a relationship that the 'I' has that that's not good, and this is good, and actually I'm afraid of what that would do to me because I'm making progress here. So go into it. Call its bluff. Go into it. "What's going on there ? What's the big bad demon in there ?" Go into it. Be bold. Just to blow that belief system, because it's got a golden star... to do the right thing spiritually, you know ? And it's a spinoff of, oh my God, you know, it's everywhere, you know ? It was religions for gazillions of years, and now it's kind of a New Age thing, and it's like supposed to be secular, but it's just religion. It's just not got the label of religion on it, but it's the same thing – these spiritual practices, do you know ? Break them all ! Break them all, so you get out of that loop. And then we'll see who the 'I' is. But at the moment there can't be enough distance, because it's gone into one habit – it's kind of deeply involved in one habit. So for you to kind of observe the 'I' and to go into, "Who am I ?" - it won't work. Something is crying out to be bad. But, you know, let yourself be 'bad.' Balance it out, and shock the whole lot of it out. Because while there's a practice of not being judgmental, on others of the family, or what's happening, there's no such judgment going on for yourself; because, "it's wrong for me to be judgmental" – that's judgmental, no ? You said that. Do you see ? Q: Yes. J: Do the opposite. Do the opposite and have fun with it, and let it get light. And it will just be a phase. It will turn it all up on its head, and it will be like, "Oh, what in the name of God do I do ?," and great if you're there, fantastic. Right, then we'll start again, do you know ? Something needs to be balanced out experientially, so there's a bit of freeing up around being 'good' or whatever – I'm not sure what language would work for you. But you know what I'm talking about; following your own rules – break the whole bloody lot of them. Q: Oh, yeah, OK. So, yeah, there's this thing about impeccability and all that. J: Yes, yes. There even might be a kind of self-righteousness going through it. That's what I'm after. I'm after that. So do the opposite so that you blow it out. Q: OK, sure. J: But do it as a practice. Do it observing yourself. Do it watching, saying "Whoa, I'd never do that !" OK, OK, that's the challenge for this week. All right ? Like that. Stay with it, but know what you're doing, so that you're not lost in it, but you know what you're doing – you're just smashing the rules that were held so dearly, and that kept you safe, kept you on track, had you progressing – smash these rules. Q: That's great. Thank you. J: Yeah, that'll last some time. Q: That ought to do something. J: That'll do something, yeah. Q: Thank you. J: You're most welcome. Q: So you just ending by saying, "That'll do something." And it just brings the whole confusion back again. J: OK. Yes. Q: Do what, to whom ? Who's doing it - you know, the whole story. J: Of course. Q: It can drive you nuts. J: OK, yeah yeah, I know. OK, you have to work out from where you're at. Anything else is grabbing an intellectual theory that doesn't fit yet. Q: I'm sort of at the point of wanting to give up grabbing at any theory, but it's like the pull that you talked about, the push – you can't ignore. As long as it's there, you're paying attention to it, and you don't necessarily, I don't necessarily know if there's a right or wrong way to pay attention. You just do what you do. J: Indeed. Q: So that means you come to satsang, you read books, you talk to people, and you're still in what seems like a search. I still like it; I want the truth. And so it just gets to be like this hamster in a cage... And then, when you say, "Stop", the other side is, a truth to know is still burning. So you can't stop. J: OK, so you can't stop. It has to burn out itself, you see. It has to burn out by itself, because that's the level of consciousness. You can't grab the theory... you see, language is dualistic, so language is a bummer, right ? So, let's kind of be flexible with it. So, if you grab the theory that, "I know that there's nothing for me to gain. I know that if I stop searching, the 'I' might drop anyway, so I'll stop searching." But the burning is still there. Now that's grabbing theory that's not ready yet. That's what I'm talking about, OK ? Now, what's useful at this point is brutal self honesty, where like, "OK, right, I've read the books; I'm done with that, right ? I've done the whole thing; I have a good handle on how it works." But this is where it's at; right now, this is where it's at. Now, trying to grab somebody else's answer, and trying to make that make sense for you – let that fall away, let that fall away. Do you see ? So, if there is a burning inside you, OK, that's fine. It's a burning for something that you'll know you actually can't get. But you have to exhaust it until it spins itself out, until something knows, it's totally futile. And that point is usually reached when you're helpless, hopeless; you can't do any more... "I've nothing more to give you," and you feel that something is saying, "But I want more; I want more." And you're like, "Well, OK, there's nothing left to give you, and you can still say 'I want more, I want more'" – that is when it burns out... Do you see ? Q: Yeah, of course, the ego comes up and says, "That's pretty scary." J: Yes. Q: "What's going to happen to me ?" J: Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. You see, the 'I' is only continuing because it doesn't want to die. That's the whole point, the whole point. And I'm saying, "Hey, the death of the ego is where you're going." And the funny thing is, like, nature, you know, is moving the 'I' towards its own death. But you think if the 'I' really believed it was going to die, it would be running along with the search ? Not at all, so it has to set up a false pot of gold for itself. Do you see ? It's perfect. It's just perfect, do you know ? Q: And the piece I'm struggling with is, to really... do that, it feels like…I would become just this totally worthless, lazy son of a bitch, doing absolutely nothing, which also doesn't seem... well, I mean, as it feels now, it wouldn't happen anyway; I couldn't do that. Maybe I could. Maybe at that point, I would do... J: Yes, and there'd be no 'I' there who'd be bothered about it. Q: Yeah, that part doesn't connect yet. J: Yes, you imagine you can take the 'I' with you. Q: I can imagine being at the point where nothing matters, because since there's no 'I' to care, who cares ? I can understand that, but the experience of maybe having that happen is a little bit... J: OK, but when it happens, you can't have the experience of it, because it takes an 'I' to have the experience of it. It's just dead. There's no post-death experience. So then, what would you be worried about ? Q: Nothing. J: Correct. Whether there's movement through your body, or no movement through your body, it wouldn't register as good or bad, or right or wrong, or useful or useless – it just doesn't register at all. Q: Yeah, but here I am now... thinking that, but being in this situation where I don't experience that, so it's like, what in the hell am I going to do now ? I'm really tired of this. J: OK, yea. Yes. It's great that it exhausts itself out, because it's a moving towards that phase of, like, "I've nothing left, and still you keep flogging me," you know ? "And I've nothing left." It's called surrender; it's just called the breakdown, then you stop fighting. The 'I' will just see that "I can't do this. I can't do this. I can't make it happen. I can't keep searching. I can't go forwards. I can't go backwards." OK, now we're looking at the 'I' losing its power, losing its belief that it can go there. But for many you hit a total, total wall of surrender like you never knew before. Something is broken beyond repair. Q: And then that becomes something to chase. What you just said is like, "OK, I'll go after that." J: Yes, until it exhausts you, too. And the exhaustion will come, where there's nothing at all but the exhaustion; not even the thought of any movement towards searching... there's nothing there, there's nothing to support the movement towards it. But as long as there is a movement to support the search, then the 'I' isn't finished its dance. Do you see ? The 'I' will run out of steam; it's just getting tired. But it's like an old car – you can get five years out of an old car, more that what you thought. It's like that, you know ? Maybe ten, do you know, and you're like, "I can't believe that this is still going." ... So being bothered that it's still going, it's like, "Ah it's going, it's not going... pfft." It's all right; it's all right. It's going to play out the way it's going to play out anyway. But the more you can place attention away from the 'I' story – that much you can do. And it stops feeding the 'I' who's pissed off at not getting there, or who has ideas of what to get... because those ideas will keep the 'I' fueled. So you can stop putting petrol in the car. You can do that. Place your attention outside of the whole gig, outside of the whole show... again and again and again. And the 'I' will lose its power like nothing else. Q: Mind if I ask you another question ? J: For sure, go for it. Q: It is some connected, but might not seem like it. How do you know what you know ? J: OK. Someone asked me this last weekend, and what came then was, "I don't know. Words come and words go, and there's no clue of what's said." And then, afterwards, it was like, "Is there anything else there," you know ? And examination happened; is there anything other than just words coming and words coming; but you know what, there is some kind of ability, during satsang, to see the playground of mind. There seems to be something that's just... but you know it's just all mind; it's like it's easy... because it's just mind, it's not real. "It's just saying this... and it's just believed…". If it's not believed, sure this is obviously what's happening. But when there's a belief in it, there's something that's inside of it, do you know ? There's a personal perspective. But without a personal perspective, sure there's just movement; it's all just movement. So an explanation of the movement comes out. There's no sense of knowing anything at all. There's nothing to be known. But there seems to be kind of... it's really easy to see what mind does, because it's just mind, do you know ? It'll just... I'll move this way, and I'll move this way, and I'll... and they're just all thoughts, they're just all thoughts. So, you know, it's easy to see it. But there's no sense of knowing anything; there's no sense of knowing anything. So I'd have to add that bit to what I said to somebody last week. Words come out, and words come out, but the words that come through Jac are just literally because there's no belief in any of the thoughts. And they're just happening in consciousness. And so there's a take that's happening in consciousness on that happening in consciousness. But there's no sense of knowing anything. Q: Yeah. And, of course, the question comes from back to the beginning there somewhere, that ' that is' and 'I'm not'. J: But you are. There's a belief in that moment that you spoke that... there's a belief running in consciousness, which has nothing to do with you at all. But that belief uses words like, perhaps, 'I'm not there'. And it's like... well sure, that's not true. That's a belief. It can only be a belief. It's not true, you see; it's known that it's not true, but it's not known as a separate piece of knowledge – it's just clearly not possible. You can't be cut off from the dream you're having... because it's a dream. Q: OK... yeah... there's nothing more to say or add to that. I understand what you're saying. And here I am. Thank you. J: So it seems. Q: Exactly. J: And no more authenticity than that. No more authenticity than that. There isn't any more authenticity than that. Beliefs do their damnedest to give it authenticity, but they're beliefs – they're all just useless. But that's how the show works. Q: Well, thanks for being a part of it. J: Hi. Q: So I'm going to play devil's advocate again, OK ? J: Yeah. Q: So if there's separation and unity, are like dualistic, and it seems to me that 'I' and 'not I' are also dualistic, or thought and no thought. And it seems to me that as human beings we've evolved, and that part of what our evolvement is, is that we can think. And so it makes sense to differentiate between speculation, which is a lot of what you're talking about – speculation drives us crazy, conditioned beliefs can really do us in... but that true thought, even as we're speaking, we're in mind and we're in thinking, and we are all individuals really – maybe that's a good thing. And that what it really is, is like you've used in your book about I AM, the I AM, so somewhere that's in here. J: It's a thought. Q: It's a thought, but it seems people like Rudolf Steiner, who really looked at thought, or philosophers, and I mean they talk about whole realms... Well, OK, if I don't think, if I'm not in the world, then the Goldman Sachs people, you know, are going to be the ones who are running the show. And it seems to me I need to be in the world using my mind, developing my mind beyond these conditioned places in order to pay my rent or my mortgage, and take care of responsibilities, that I have a body. And I'm in the world, and I have a body, and it's a good thing, and it's a reason, and I have a mind, and since I have a mind I need to know it and use it. So those are some of things that come up for me. J: OK, if those beliefs are working for you, fine. Q: Well, it's not so much... if they were, I wouldn't be here. I'm really wanting to know the truth, and you know as I've in some ways embraced this kind of being, you know, the meditation, and the 'no thought', and the 'resting as attention', and then I'm farther away. I'm not any happier, and I'm farther away from the world, from being... it's like some people said, I just... rather hang out in my garden, and look at the view – the sky seems the most alive thing to me. J: Then do that. Q: But I have a child still in high school. And, like everybody else, I did, I pulled away from a really toxic job, thinking that if I did that, you know, somehow this being authentic and being selfless instead of selfish, then all of a sudden things would unfold, not just the desert. And yet the reality is... now I'm in a world where I could care less about a lot of material things, but I still need to put food on the table. And I want to be engaged, there's some 'I', there's some 'I' that wants to know itself, that wants to have direct experience, like it just doesn't work to look in the clouds all day. And then I get lonely. So there does seem to be something to be done... just like you're doing - you're here. J: No, I'm not. Q: I see you. J: That's not what I am. And that body is not what you are. And if you believe that you are an individual woman with a mind who's evolving, why would you confine yourself to that ? That is not what you are. You were never designed to do that. It's a movie that's playing in your brain. Q: So, I need more from you to understand how that... J: There are layers and layers of beliefs that you said there in your question, layers of it – that we are human beings, we're all individuals, I have a life, I have a mind, we're all evolving... if I don't get out and participate in the world, then somebody else will take over – and it's like, if those thoughts are running, fine. But examine them, examine them and see if they're true, or if they're just believed. Start doing some investigative work. Q: Well, I do, and it goes around in these loops and it, you know... what I've come to right now is, it's not that thinking's bad, it's just the quality of thinking that I have. It's something about... knowing. I mean, I know we use those words, knowing and understanding. There's something I yearn for, some connection, some understanding. I don't even know what it is that I yearn for, but... J: But it's for the 'I' to behold. Q: So tell me how come 'I' and 'not I' are just a belief, and how come that's not a duality. J: Of course it's duality. Every word that we speak is in duality, so we can only use dualistic terms. When something is 'seen', the words aren't taken literally anymore; they're just used as pointers to that which is beyond. But until something is seen or has shown itself, you can't do anything about it except go with blind faith. And if the faith isn't strong enough, then you simply got to play in the world a bit more. Q: But what about karma ? Do you believe in karma ? J: There's no 'I'. There's no belief in anything. Karma works while one believes they're an individual. What we reap we sow, we sow what we reap – whatever it is. What goes around, comes around, do you know ? If there's an individual person who believes in having a separate life, that law runs with it. Q: So, OK. If I look at... there's minerals, and there's plants, and there's animals, and there's people, and then... J: You see, already, no no no no. But OK. Do you see what I mean ? You see, every question you start off with what you believe. And each of these beliefs are taken to be real because they're not seen through right now. So if I ask you, "Who are you ?" Q: Well, I have a name, gender, age... J: OK, you have, you have. OK, that's what you have. Q: And I am... J: You are what, or who ? Q: This voice, this body who dwells - what dwells in the voice and this body. J: And what dwells in this voice and that body ? Q: Something living... that we call 'living'. J: Like what... living itself or is there something living ? Q: There's life. J: So are you life ? Q: Yeah, that's part... I must be part of life. J: Part of life. Q: Of life. I must have life because... J: "I must have life." So then what's the 'I' that has life ? Q: The consciousness that's looking at you right now. J: The consciousness is the framework within which everything happens. Q: Well, you can tell me what I'm not, or you can say: everything, it's not, it's not, it's not. J: Yeah ? Q: Only that... and that I don't have it, and I won't have it until I have it. J: You'll never 'have it'. Q: But you have something different than what I have. J: That's a perspective which is totally not true. Q: So how can we communicate ? J: We're doing OK, I think... Not from there, no ? [Laughter] Q: And then you know, and I mean it's one thing to sit here and use concepts to say we're beyond concepts, because that's what we're doing. And then it's another thing to be in the world. J: Is it ? Q: For me. J: Yeah, because there's this work, and then there's the world, where the concepts are solid. Q: No, it's because there's a feel... like looking at the clouds in the sky, amazing. You know, having a nice little house to raise my son... is wonderful. But not being able to pay for the house, it's not so good. And I can say... and I can't pay for it by looking at the clouds. J: Yes. So then there's desire to look at the clouds – looking at the clouds is better than working. Q: Well, and you know when I was young I could live cheaply, but you know then I got a job that paid a certain amount of money so that I could buy a house that has a certain mortgage; and now all of a sudden jobs are like $15/hr if you can find one. I mean this is for a lot of people. J: Sure, sure. Q: So, we're all in... that's a pretty scary place. J: For an 'I', yes. But it's just happening, on another level. Q: So, what to do with that when I have a responsibility towards another human being ? J: Yes. You can worry about it, and get into your head, and unload the concepts, and fear will come. Q: OK, so there's a certain surrendering. And there's a certain trust that something will come up... or not. J: You can do something about it, or try and make it come up. While the 'I' is strong, absolutely take action. Q: So, to take action though... I seem to need to strengthen my ego. J: Yes, yes. Q: At the same time... there's something in me that doesn't really care if I have an ego or not. J: The 'I' who doesn't care if it has an ego or not, is the ego. Q: So I have these role models, OK ? So there's Jesus Christ, and that Jesus Christ seems to have been, what do you want to call him, an archetype, or something much more than that, the Christ Consciousness – that's something real that's come in. ... So where does that fit into your non-world view, I mean ? J: It's just part of the movie, like everything is – it's just part of the movie. Q: So I feel sad when you talk that way. J: Yes, because the 'I' wants to believe that this is real, and wants to hold on to it, because it's not done with it. Q: Well then... how do you find... meaning for being here... J: There is no meaning. We're not here. You see, I can't give an answer that an 'I' is going to be happy with. Q: Because truthfully, it just sounds nonsense... J: Totally. Totally. Of course it does. Because it hasn't shown itself to you. Q: So how is that helpful to me ? J: OK. All right. The 'I' hasn't come to its fullness. This work will be gobbledygook, in theory only, until the 'I' is full, until self love for you, for yourself, is totally solid; until trust in your own capabilities, and in the universal support of you is totally solid. Q: Well, it seems like when you talk about self love, that part of self love is going out there and doing things that feel really adversant. J: Huh ? I'm sorry I don't understand... Q: Like some of the work that we have to do for our $15/hr is very mind-numbing, you know ? So how is that self-loving, that one has to go...J: Self love is that you exquisitely love yourself. It has nothing to do with what the body does to bring money into the house. It's got nothing... why would you link them ? Self love is just that you deliciously and totally are in love with who you are. And that brings the ego to wholeness, and from there it can start to unravel the beliefs. But it can't do that – it's like you're in university, and you haven't done elementary school. And it's not a good or a bad thing, but it's about that brutal self-honesty of seeing where is it at, and what's real. And what's real is that separation is strong, and that there is some feeling that you'll be demeaning yourself if you're doing a job that pays badly. It's like, well that's just lack of self love. If self love was solid, sure, it wouldn't matter what you're doing. Q: OK, so where I live, or I can't keep the house for my son to finish his last year of school in... and I have this aging body, or that I'm lonely; I mean it seems to me that part of it is, OK, some of the conflicting beliefs are about what's selfish and what's unselfish – that's a big one. J: Yes. Q: And then the other one is, you know, loving solitude, and yet really loving connection with other people. And then, like, at some points thinking... the way our world is seems really stupid... J: There are just all beliefs. You can churn them out forever. There's a gazillion in the world. We have 90,000 a day. And you can keep presenting new ones and new ones and new ones – they're just beliefs. Q: So what do you suggest instead ? J: Love yourself totally and completely. Q: What does that mean ? J: It's an internal relationship with who you think you are. Love her... totally. Q: What if, when I just get really pissed off at her, is that love ? J: No. No. Q: So where does that anger, or resentment, or... come from ? J: Love her anyway. They come from the pain, and the justification for allowing yourself to suffer. Q: So you don't suffer any more. J: No, there's no 'I' to suffer. Suffering is a concept, and it's not bought. Q: So, can I ask what you do in your free time ? [Laughter] I mean, what do you do in your life ? J: What do I do – whatever I'm asked to do. Q: And who asks you ? J: S- ? (coordinator for the event) [Laughter] Q: And if nobody asks you to do anything ? J: I don't imagine I'd do anything. I'd see what the body did. If I'm hungry, I'm hungry. But I've never been hungry. Q: And you like this place better than... J: No, there's no preferences at all. Wherever I am is where I am. There's no dialogue of, "I like, I don't like." There's no dialogue going on this head. There's no, "I prefer this, I'd like that, Oh that'd suit me better." There is no dialogue going on. There's nothing going on upstairs here, nothing. Do you see ? Q: Not really. I mean, you can tell me that, but what I see is, you look like everybody else, and you talk like everybody else... J: OK. Sure. That's fine. That's an opinion. That's just another belief. And it's believed to be so like every other belief. This is just another one of the 90,000. None of them are true. They're just all perspectives. Q: OK. J: But the glimpses cannot come until you absolutely, exquisitely love yourself. Q: How do you know that ? J: Try it and prove me wrong. Q: And how come that's opposite of what many of us were taught ? J: That's why, because the opposites generally have to balance themselves out before the ego will start to break down. It's the opposite; of course it's the opposite. Q: So really everything is opposite ? J: In the world of beliefs, yes. Everything has its opposite, yes. Q: So if there's a world of belief, and everything has its opposite, how do you... I guess we have to experience both until we figure out... J: Very often, yeah, very often. People will be broke and rich in the same lifetime or, you know, very often married and divorced. Very often you have two opposing experiences in one lifetime, very often. It could be, you know, selling real estate and then you're running a counseling clinic, you know, in one lifetime. Q: What is the source for what comes for you ? You said things... J: I am the source. I am all of it. And that's what you are, but there's just beliefs running in consciousness that there's something else at play, and it's just beliefs. Q: So you... in your book you said you have or you had clairvoyance ? J: Yeah, that's what the publishing company put on the back. [Laughter] I'm not bothered by it... Q: So what does that mean to you ? J: Nothing at all. In the movie, yes. In the world of beliefs, yes. Q: So... do you experience different realms ? J: Nothing now. Nothing to be experienced, because it needs an 'I' to experience. Q: So it's a void, it's nothing, I mean you're just in the starry night without stars ? I just wish you had some more descriptive words. J: Deep sleep. Deep sleep. You know that. Deep sleep. Q: But it seems to me that we would have deep sleep, and if we'd have awake time, then there's a purpose to that. Deep sleep is to sleep deeply, and to be awake is... J: But you only can allocate purpose once you're awake. Now let's say you don't wake up at all – drop purpose of deep sleep. OK, if you stayed in deep sleep, there's no need for purpose... do you see ? Q: In deep sleep... J: Yes. Q: But, you know, if you're in really hot sand, you're going to burn yourself; and if you're in snow, you're going to freeze. So when you're in really hot sand, you know 110 degrees, or in freezing weather, you need different things. J: Yeah, and the body takes care of itself, generally. Q: Well, differently in deep sleep than when you're awake. J: Don't worry about any of it. Q: All right. I just hear you saying... there's just this one sameness thing. Am I just misinterpreting ? J: You're misinterpreting. Q: Could you... J: Read the chapter on self-esteem in detail. Read that chapter. Read it. Read it and do every single thing until you know that you are totally, totally... can move on, from loving yourself unconditionally. That has to be solid. Otherwise, we can just talk around ideas forever. You have 90,000 thoughts in any day. I mean, can we just keep playing tennis with these ? They're all equally just useless; they're just beliefs taken to be true. But you can't start investigating them until it's known, until it's known that you totally, totally love and accept yourself exactly as you are. So wherever you learned the opposite, that it's not OK to do that, that has be challenged; and so challenge it, and see if it's still working for you. Q: All right. J: OK ? That's where to start. The rest of it is just... we're going nowhere. Q: Well, that's solid. J: OK. Q: Thank you. J: All righty. OK. Q: Hi, I'm J-. J: Hi J-. Q: I have a question about, 'We're not doing it... it's just being done'. And so you feel a 'push' - I've heard that said tonight - a push towards something. And so, then the 'I' feels like it needs to move. And then you do the stories around, "I'm not moving fast enough or right enough," or whatever all those stories are. So my question is, if you just let go of all of it, will it happen anyway ? J: When the one who's doing the letting go lets go, so then the one who has let go, where is that one then ? Q: OK, say that again. J: OK. If I let go, it's going to happen anyway, perhaps. OK, so the 'I' does this activity of letting go – where's the 'I' then ? The 'I' who is letting go... Q: It isn't like it would be calmer... J: For the 'I' ? Q: Uh huh. J: So we still have an 'I'. Q: Yeah. Yes. J: It can be calmer for a while. Q: So what does that mean ? J: Because then we're in the realm of how an 'I' is experiencing, then it will work for a while. Q: So then, how does acting on the 'push' make it better ? J: Because it stops the resistance, the 'I' who is fighting to have control. It doesn't feed the resistance. There's serious pain in resisting what is. And so when there's a pull, and a yielding towards something, it's like it suppresses the part of the 'I' that gets fed through fighting, through saying 'No', through contracting. It's just a technique in not feeding the 'I'. But the 'I' is doing it, and the 'I' will reap the rewards. It still isn't enough... I'm not making any sense, am I ? Q: Yeah, you are. But I think I've got it turned around in my head. So, other ladies that talked tonight, they talked about raising children. OK, I have that same story, except my children and 29 and 31. And I can't let go, and I'm being pushed to let go, and completely walk away. And I have a grandchild that's two, and I love him. I love my husband. I mean, everything is good, you know ? There's just lots of love, and there's beautiful gardens, and there's swings... And then I heard you say you were taking a bath, which meant a bath of cold water. I'm 53, I can't do that; I don't want to do that. So what do you do with the push ? J: OK. The push is going to have its merry way, anyway, because it's from something else that's inside; it's going to push through. So the pain now is from the resistance to the push. So what we're talking about earlier is, step out of the way and let the push do its thing. What's the other option – stay in fear of what the push is going to do ? Q: It's getting really bad. It's been building for years and years, and it just got suddenly really, really bad. J: Yeah. So it's knocking on the door of the one who's trying to control what's beautiful. Let it in. Q: But where would I go ? J: Let me see what it says. Q: What will I do... for money ? What do people do for money... when they do this stuff... get on a plane, and go to India and live in an ashram... what are they paying for it with ? I can't backpack through Europe; I'm too old. And now I think I'll wait for my next lifetime, and then you say there isn't one. [Laughter] J: OK. OK. It's not about going anywhere. It's an internal movement. Q: You say that, but I don't get it. J: OK. Q: It feels like it is... it feels really hard, like that door you open, and you're in the abyss; and, by the way, that's from Beetlejuice. J: Oh ! [Laughter] OK. The fear of having to go on a plane is the worst part of going on a plane. The fear of, "All this will be pulled from me"; the fear is the bad part. Q: I can't feel my face. I mean this is really a huge thing. It's bigger than I think it is. J: What do you mean, you can't feel your face ? Q: Oh, it just feels hot and... J: Oh, like right now. Q: Yeah... like I watch myself all the time. I just watch and watch and watch, and nothing else ever happens. J: All right. Do you go behind the observer ? Q: How ? There is no curtain to get behind - I don't get it, I don't get it. I sit and meditate, and then all I can do is hear the dog bark, and a car goes by, and... J: OK. OK. All right. So when there's observing going on, is there a commentary ? Tell me what's happening when you're observing. Q: Nothing really... you just watch; you just watch what happens. You watch your 'move', and you watch your 'cook', and you watch your 'go to work', and you watch your... and you just watch. And then you say, "Try to get behind that," and what's behind that, I don't know; I can't get there. J: OK. The 'I' can't get there, but you can point mind towards there. So from the position of observer... can you observe yourself now ? Can you kind of... you can watch it now, OK ? OK. So now go to the source of the next thought. Q: The source... of the next thought ? J: Yeah... where you're next thought is going to come from – put your attention there. Q: It's like, out there somewhere ? Don't know where ? J: Yeah. Q: It reminds me of a ticker tape, like the stock market, where it just flies across the board. Do you know what I mean, it just comes from the corner. J: OK. No, not really, but... Q: Like a light board with words on it... and you know how it just... comes from the corner, I mean it doesn't really come from anywhere. J: All right, OK. Oh yeah, I understand. OK, so you're going to the space of where the letters of that board... Q: Well, it's just – they just come; I can't identify; I can't get to that place. J: No, you can't, but you can point mind there. Q: And how... OK. J: There's no solution; it doesn't get anywhere. But it's pointing mind to the furthest extreme from identifying with thought. Q: And then, what happens when you do that ? J: It burns out your ability to identify with your thoughts. Q: Does anything happen physically when you do that ? J: For some, yes. But usually, no. Q: So it's all done in the mind. J: Yes. Q: So when you meditate, you get to that point where you're not aware of your body. J: Yes. Q: That's not it. J: No, because there's something that's not aware of its body, no ? Not deep enough. Q: OK. J: So bringing mind to its limit is all you can do. But can do that. So the observer is a good halfway house, and you kind of got to practice being an observer for a good while to get it pretty solid, so that... Q: Mine's pretty solid... but then the step beyond that, it's just blocked. And then the fear is too great. It's too great... I think if I go to India, all I'll do is sit up there and miss my family. J: OK. Yeah, so don't go to India. This is an inside job; this is an inside job. I'm not convinced you have to go anywhere – it's just fear. It's fear of going behind the I AM, the observer, and fear of what would happen, and fear of losing the attachment. We're just talking fear – it's just got stuck onto many different things. We're talking fear, that is all. Q: OK. J: The fear will pass. Fear is just an emotion as a result of a belief. And the belief can be 'it's not safe; something will happen to me; I'll lose my family; I'll never be the same; I won't be able to function'... Q: I fear I'll hate me – that's what I'm afraid of. J: OK, then deal with that. Q: They'll say, "Mom just completely tore out on us, and left us..." J: And so, if that happens, let that happen. Q: I've raised them very well – they're very dependent on me. [Laughter] J: So that's got to crack, huh ? That's got to crack. Q: OK. So... J: Give them permission to hate you, or love you. It's a free country, no ? Q: OK, so what did you say to me ? What about the fear ? J: OK. So, on a human level, on a level of the 'I', the ingredients of the fear can be pulled apart. So in other words, give your family and your close friends permission to think you have lost your marbles. Q: Oh, they're way beyond that. J: All right. So now, the next level. Give them the permission to hate you, to reject you. Q: OK. J: OK... so that if that happens, it's got no threat. Welcome it in; if it's going to happen, it's got to be OK. Q: OK. J: All right ? Now, what's there to fear ? Q: That they would reject me, and then I'd miss them. That's what always comes up – I would miss them. J: Yeah, and missing somebody has to do with playing a memory and doing a bit of self- pity at the same time. Q: I'm good at that... the victim thing. In fact, I had this little shift that happened, and I told my girlfriend, I said, "Who am I if I'm not a victim ?" J: Yes. OK, so that's the 'I' hook. Q: So this is tied into that... J: Yeah. So you have to go after victim, huh ? Stop running it; stop running it. See that one. Q: How do you stop running it when you are one ? J: But you're not one... [Laughter] Q: OK. J: So the second that you see you're being a victim, cut the fuel supply. All right ? So observe that one so that it has no power any more, so it doesn't suck you in any more, it's not played out any more. Every time there's a position of observer at play, go behind it; place attention to the source of the next thought. Q: OK. OK. J: And stay at home. Q: OK. I didn't know that was tied in to that victim thing. J: Yeah, yeah. There had to be something pulling, because there was fear appearing everywhere, tied onto every story, like "How come this is so big ?". It had to be attached to some belief that was valuable, an identity that was valuable. And there might be something else under the victim. Q: Yes, if the victim dies, I'm gone. J: All right, OK. Ah well, then, good reason to keep it alive. Q: Yeah, I'm completely gone; I felt that. J: OK. All right. Then send it off. Q: OK. Thank you. J: Yeah, thank you.   Listen to this audio satsang : Seattle, April 30th, 2010

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Download this satsang transcribe :   Jac: Just settle and be inside. Whatever mind is doing, you don't have to be concerned with it at all. It does its own thing, completely independently of what you are. Whatever can be said to you is only going to be of use to who you think you are. How could it be of any use to who you really are ? How could it be of any use to who you really are ? And then if, who you are, really are, was separate to who you think you are, it would be able to have a really good laugh at what you think you're doing. Do you know ? But it's so integral, that it's all so wrapped up, it's quite seamless. Who you are is kind of behind the outward search, the outward looking... maybe this, maybe that book, maybe this satsang, maybe this, maybe that. What about if it was all to stop; if there was nothing to look for; if it just dawned that the search is what's delaying the seeing of who you really are ? What if it was all to stop ? Would you be without a lifestyle, would you be without a community ? Can you let the whole thing go ? You'd find that you'd have nothing to say, and it would be just perfectly fine. You wouldn't be grasping onto a tiny condition you had to do before you die, and you'd be perfectly fine. The idea of waking up in this lifetime would seem insignificant. So what if this search was to stop ? It will one day, you know, and you can let it be now. You can let it be now. The search is just about the 'I' cruising around looking for refined experiences in the spiritual realm. That's all it's doing. It's looking for another hit, it thinks enlightenment is another hit. The show goes on, but it's no more refined than digging potatoes, or whatever people do here. It's just another engagement of mind and intellect, as if something would be better when the lawn is mowed, do you know ? Yah sure, but... you do it again in three weeks' time. The search is like that, because as long as you're looking, you cannot find it. The looking is the problem. So what do you stand to lose if you stop searching, what really do you stand to lose, because the 'I' will imagine it's gaining something, so therefore it's going to lose something if it's not searching. So what have you created as "I gain..." or "I lose..." ? Chuck them both out. Anyway, there's a chair here, in case there's an 'I' who's not going to stop seeking. Q: You've scared off all the 'I's'. It worked. J: Yeah... for how long though, huh ? For how long ? He simply loves to experience, you know ? Just loves to experience. 'Let me keep on experiencing something.' But that must be surrendered. At some point, that must be surrendered. It will either be swiped from you, or you can surrender it. Go into a place of knowing that that will be taken, so that there isn't so much fight, so much clinging, so much attachment to the capacity to experience. If you look at experiencing, you know, it's like – how did we get fooled by it at all – that experiencing is this wonderful thing, it gives you that ability to feel alive. It's just a bundle of concepts, that's all it is. It's just a house made out of straw. It's just a bundle of concepts. And somehow, when it's all believed, it feels like an experience can be had, that I can experience something. It's nothing more than a bundle of concepts. We need linear time before an experience, during an experience, and after an experience, so we can talk about the experience. We need separation, so that there's a 'me' and something that can happen to 'me', which is on the outside. We need cause and effect to be running. If you take away the three of those, the whole thing kind of falls down. There's nothing much happening. So if there aren't concepts running, nothing is happening to what you are. There's movement, but that's about it. You could even take movement away, but... we'll leave you with movement for the moment... the appearance of movement – let it get that... thin. L: My name is L-. J: Ah, hello ! Yes, we emailed. L: As I might have shared, you know, there's the moments when the veil falls away and there's nobody here, and there's just freedom. And then it seems that the veil comes over, and there's... identification arises again. But there was a seeing... man, it's like it's not true. J: That's right, it's not true. L: So why am I buying into this ? J: Good question. L: Because it's just... the total freedom is when there's no identification with the individual. J: That's right... that's exactly it. L: And why, after you're seeing the truth, why is the veil... why is it so enticing, this identification, this pretending 'I' ? J: Because the mind says, "Oh, come back to me, come back to me, look what I can offer you. There's cookies in the jar," you know ? L: Yeah... but seeing that those cookies in the jar are nothing... to the freedom of no person, nobody, no... J: So why are you going back believing that there's cookies in the jar, that they're tasty. L: That's what I'd like to know. J: Don't go back there. L: Well, that's easy for you to say... that easy for you to say ! J: OK, there's a seeing, fantastic. And I know it's written in the old books that, oh, once it's seen, it never comes back. And it's not true. You know it's not true, so it's fine, it's normal, that's not true. The thing is, being established in it, is what hasn't happened. So there's some kind of alignment that has yet to click in, so that the illusion will always be seen as the illusion, so that it will never ever smell authentic. Now, when it comes back and looks like it's authentic, you do have an option. The 'I' has an option, which is part of the illusion, but the 'I' has the option of buying into it, or not. L: Sometimes it doesn't seem like that option is that easy. J: Tell me about that. If the option is seen, how come you don't take it ? L: Well, because it's like a forgetting, it's just somehow finding myself back in the old way of looking at things without realizing that there's been a shift. And then at some point, there's a memory of what it was like, and a frustration – well, I want to get back there, and not seeming to know how to do that. J: OK, in a way there's no knowing how to do it. All you can do is reject what mind is presenting as real. That's as much as you can do. I'll give you an example of when this was happening to Jac, the story here [pointing to self]. There were phases of... it's totally movie, separation – how could it ever be taken real ? And like, three months later, whoa, oh my God, where did that go, what happened, I'm here again ? All right ? OK. I remember the very last time that arose was – I remember, once it broke, and the seeing came back again, I can remember saying, "I don't care how incredibly convincing that maya is, that the illusion is, I will never go back there because it's only about suffering." Sooner or later, it's always about suffering. Now, that is the thing [that enabled me to say], "I'm not going there, I'm not going there," even though every bit of mind was saying, "But you're crazy. Look at what you're rejecting, you're kind of killing yourself, girl... you're being a fool, come on, dance the dance, it's going to happen anyway, you'll be fine, squeeze the last bit of juice out of living... oh look, you know, everything will come." "I'm not buying it, I'm not buying it, I'm not buying it." And some kind of, I don't know, discipline, resilience, some kind of thing kicks in if you really are finished with the dance of maya. L: I see. Well, one thing has helped, when you talked about watching the source of thought, and I found there was a period where I was able to do that, and it seemed like that was kicking in. I was starting to catch myself with the thoughts, and would see that, and then the thoughts would die down, and there would be no thoughts, or very little for periods of time. And that seemed to be helpful, and then any kind of a practice seems to turn into a struggle, and a re-identification. Well, there's a 'me' doing a practice. And so, then the thoughts of, it's OK just exactly how it's looking, nothing needs to be different, and just embrace everything as it is. There seems to be a dance; it all seems to be an art to... it's like, I have to do it, I can only hear these pointers, but it's like learning how to paint. It's kind of... there's an art to it, and there's like – following the inner guidance of what feels, you know, the most helpful thing, rather than getting caught... in any of these suggestions to being an 'I' doing a practice, and then it gets heavy. J: OK, but when the 'I' has appeared, i.e. when you're back in believing thoughts, well now you're there. You can again use the 'I' to annihilate the 'I'. Of course you can. Because that's presenting as real, so use it to destroy itself. You know it's just a game. But what it does is, it stops the movie pulling you back in. L: OK... so just even seeing that that's what I'm doing frees me from solid identification with it, as if this is really me and I'm really doing this. J: [Yes], it's just a technique in consciousness. It's just a technique – the idea of an 'I' is annihilating the 'I', and that's happening in consciousness. L: Yeah. It seems as though treating it, well... with a certain amount of lightness, and don't take myself too seriously, is really a key, I think. J: Yeah. OK. It is for some and it isn't for others. For Jac there was a fight, you know, there's a fight, it was vicious at times. But there is also for some the fact that the natural state is relaxed. L: Yeah, well, you know I've been doing this for 40 years, so like maybe it's time to lighten up a little bit. Maybe the intensity is what's preventing the release. J: Exactly. Yes, and only you can feel your way into that one. Because you've got both – the intensity is the 'I' burning out the 'I', but at a certain point it shifts into, "But sure, what I am is relaxed." So the fighting with it must be the 'I' trying to get something again. But only at a certain time can that kick in. Only when it feels absolutely real, it feels absolutely - oh, hold on, there's something relaxed beneath all of this. And then if becoming relaxed drops awareness behind the 'I' thought – perfect. Otherwise, being relaxed is the 'I' just playing at kicking back, and that's a trick. L: Yes, well, you know, I've had teachers try to encourage me to do that, and I knew there's a missing link here, and I wasn't buying into, you know... it doesn't seem to be appropriate at this point. J: Yes, that's it. It's so subtle, what you're talking about. Mind is so subtle, do you know... it's going to do every trick in the book, so we watch it carefully, you know ? L: Well, that's why I came up from California to see you, because I know it's a very subtle... J: It's very subtle now, yeah, it's very subtle. But it's fine – the path has already been walked before you, so it's all right, do you know ? L: Yeah... I'm not the only one. J: No, you're not the only one. But you will have to be very vigilant to see what's mind, and what is that which is beyond. And resting in that is where it's at, and seeing every trick of mind, but let mind swallow up mind – only use mind in that way. Don't go any deeper into the mind story. So you've only got mind to manage mind; you've only got mind to annihilate mind. Do you see ? It just doesn't sit with this form here to let - aye, aye, it will all just fizzle itself out... it will, but only afterwards, when you see that it fizzled itself out. While the 'I' is alive, to be sure it feels like you're doing it, of course it feels like that. Do you see ? So it's got that paradox playing all the time. And that is the thing about, yeah, it's easy from the other side to say that something is simple. Of course it is. But that's 20-20 vision. So while the 'I' is alive, you've got to use the 'I' to annihilate the 'I'. L: When I... maybe it was '97 that I saw it never existed as an individual, and that there's only love... Now why am I telling you this ? That's one thing about my mind that, all of a sudden it goes blank, which actually is good in a way... like, it's all a story, so the blankness is an invitation to go beyond the story... [So anyway], I was in a spiritual community in Wisconsin using A Course in Miracles for awakening... looking back, it was like it became another identity – there's no 'I' here, so there's the subtle... the 'I' is identifying with this new "state"... J: Totally... and the 'I' is not the doer is another one of those. Yes, the 'I' will grab anything... It all exists, doesn't it – every version of what an 'I' can do is out there. And it's all beautiful, you know, it all has its place, you know ? L: I wanted to ask you something. I've had moments of being in a deep state of meditation, where somebody would come up to me, and they would start to speak English, and I hadn't a clue as to what the words meant, and I was aware, "I have to access a dictionary in my mind in order to know what language is." It's like you've got to move out of this non-duality state to duality in order to even have a conversation. J: Correct. Yes. L: And I also have had intuitive feeling that, when truly you are living in a non-duality state, you can't even have a relation... I mean the sexual thing can't even take hold, and I'm bringing this up because I thought I heard someone say that you no longer can have that sort of relationship. Now maybe that's not true... J: Yeah, I can't have a relationship, but every now and then sex happens. Do you know ? L: The attachment to... J: You know, it's like what you were talking about language. It's like you have to find the program of like, where touch is nice, like you have to turn the radio tuner a bit, you know, to like – oh yeah, now I can interpret this touch as being sensual, you know. But then the next day, I'm like [sigh]... that's way too much effort, forget it. So, you know, maybe it will die completely, I don't know, but it's just not worth the effort. It's just like there's way too many concepts involved. Not that it's totally gone, but... I don't know, who knows ? L: I totally get it, and yet I think very few people can relate to that. But I was curious about it, because I've had that intuitive feeling, not that it's happened to me for any period of time, but it just felt like that's just... you know, I've been into A Course in Miracles, and there's a teacher...who talked about the sexual attraction as the biggest way the ego maintains the illusion, and it just felt like that was something... but the bottom line is you don't reject anything; it's all embraced in this moment, and when you're fully in the present moment, there isn't all these reference points of good and bad, right and wrong... J: And there isn't even a reference point in the present moment. There isn't. There's no sense of being present at all. There isn't even that reference point. L: Yeah, right, because there has to be an 'I' to have that reference point. J: Yes, there must be separation to be referring to anything. L: And it's so subtle... there's just such an incredible habit of – it's 'me' talking – instead of just talking. And there's no 'me'. And not to have that 'I', that 'me' there is the absolute... there's no separation there; it's just pure. J: Yes, it's pure. And just to make a comment on one point about, you know, where you have to get a dictionary for language to see what people are talking about. That settles down, to the point where you don't have to go into the department where the dictionary is, and whatever comes out of your mouth, you don't know, and whatever's said there, you don't know. It seems to bypass the cognitive, intellectual thing that the 'I' uses. And, somehow, you can kind of crank up that intellectual capacity if you're doing something that requires it. And somehow that skill kind of comes in. But as regards communication with language, you don't need the dictionary; it's wired, it's like from that place – you don't even know what language is being spoken, but you're not even bothered then. Do you know ? You're not even noticing, and it's fine, whatever coming out, and it's gobbledygook or not, and somehow people tend to nod, and so it's like well, OK... It's that kind of... disconnected, you know, but it's not disconnected at all, it's just that everything is in its place. But an 'I' would say it's disconnected. You see ? L: Well, it seems like the truest form... if I say relating or communicating, it's not quite the right word, and I don't know what to use... but it's like there's a communication that has nothing to do with words; words are coming from separation, but there's just a knowing. I have this friend... I have these thoughts, and then she calls me and shares the same thoughts. We have this incredible, something going on where we just are so in tune with each other that the words come out just to validate what's been happening between us. And it's like my dream has been to be in a community where we don't speak, because we don't need to, but that ... J: Drop it... drop it. L: ...that's just another tangent. J: Yeah, yeah, it would be better if we didn't have to speak. Forget it, forget it, forget it. It's all actually exquisitely perfect, whatever way it's playing out. Let that be seen. It's not a concept – that will be seen. That is seen when there's no 'I'. L: This feels so amazingly simple. It's like nothing needs to be added to this moment. And there's such a proclivity to add, to make something out of this moment, to go here or there. And that complicates it. We're so used to complication, we can't get simple. J: That's right. And we live in a world where, if something isn't stimulating, it's got no value, you know ? So the brain is so used to being outside, you know ? But that's fine. L: I find myself sometimes sitting, and especially when I was doing that practice of watching the source of thought, and the mind would be still, and I'd find myself looking at the wall, and just being very content, very happy, you know ? But then, after a while, I guess the 'I' is so trying to assert itself that... oh, wait a minute, this is boring. But it's not boring if you're not going someplace with it. J: Yes, that's right. And so then, sit and look at the wall until the body moves, because the movement will come from someplace else. Just let it not be decided by mind. Usually what's happening is that a movement is coming, and the mind is buying the movement, and showing it the idea, "Oh this is boring," but all already the body has somewhere started some movement to get up and... whatever. L: So follow the body and don't follow the mind. J: Yeah, just like, yeah, 'I hear you mind', and see if the body moves. The body will move. The mind is just grabbing the movement, and saying, "Oh, I'm deciding this actually. I'm still in charge here." You see, that's all it does. L: Well, thank you. J: Your welcome... for nothing... it's all nothing anyway. Gobbledygook. R: Hi, I'm R-. Illusion... This whole concept that everything is illusion – I don't see that... that it is an illusion or it isn't an illusion. And in some ways it doesn't matter, but where it rubs for me, where I find myself thinking about it, is that our humanity is an illusion. J: OK, explain. How's our humanity... R: Well, I don't know. I've heard people say that, that if it's all an illusion...J: Then how can there be 'our humanity' ? Is the 'our' part real; is it just the humanity that's not real ? I don't understand. R: I think, to me humanity is just the being human, the feelings and the needs and... J: What about trees and birds and rivers... are they real ? R: Yeah, they're real. In my world they're real. But, I feel like it's all real. I'm bamboozled. I don't see it. J: OK. Are you saying that the humanity part is that which changes, kind of a subjective perspective, that that part isn't real because it changes so much ? R: No, no. J: I don't understand then what you're saying. R: I don't know if I can explain it. When I hear... I've been exposed to teachers who say this is all an illusion – like it's all an illusion; and first of all, it seems pretty real to me. Even if I'm sitting here doing it without any boundaries or labels or just... But it's still there. To me that's not an illusion; that's very real. I mean there's this, you know, and it's nice looking at trees and people. OK, so I don't see that as an illusion. But then, to extrapolate that and to say that all human, and even the suffering, that's an illusion – I don't see that, you know, I feel compassion... I know I'm not communicating... J: I wouldn't worry about it. I wouldn't give it any consideration at all. And if it shows itself, it will show itself. Because, for the world to appear to show itself as not being real, it means that you also are not real. That's the one to go after – if you are real, or if you are a bundle of beliefs, a bundle of concepts. And, are you your body, because you can say, "Well, that's real. I can touch it. I can feel it." Well, is that you then ? Does that define totally what you are ? If you find out what part of you is real, if you can find you that is totally real beyond a concept... that way, something might show itself, but if you take yourself as real, of course the trees are real. Of course, everything you see is real, suffering is real, if you take yourself as real, because everything follows on from the belief that you exist as a separate individual. So then, of course, we're in that language then. Of course everything appears real. But it's all based on one cornerstone, that you've taken yourself to be real. That's the one to examine. That's the one to explore. And don't worry about the rest of it. The rest of it will show itself, or not. But to go checking out to see if the world is real, it's just an intellectual exercise. To find out what I'm looking at, if she is real or not, if R- is real – what's R- ? If you explore that, something will unfold. The world cannot appear as an illusion if R- is real. R: What you say makes perfect sense, actually. Yeah, the cornerstone... of course. J: That's why there's so much emphasis on – find out who am I; find out if you exist; find out, do investigation to see what you are, looking within. That's why, because the outside will never show itself as an illusion. It can't do that; the work is inside. R: Well, if I'm... maybe I'm just attaching thoughts to things that... J: Everything is built on the 'for me,' isn't it ? Do you see it ? R: The what ? J: Everything is built on 'for me; from here; I think; I know.' It's all built on it, you see ? R: Yeah, it's like there's this back and forth... the R- show, and then there's the not R- show. So that's [when] I add thoughts... it's like, well... yeah. J: They're just thoughts. R: Right. If I'm just sit... if there's just awareness... there is no R- really. But then the R- wants to jump in and figure it out. J: Let that happen in consciousness. Let that be a happening – that's a movement in consciousness. Don't let that create a R-. It doesn't create a R-. R: So that's what you were saying earlier – don't go there; I refuse. That's using the 'I' to burn out the 'I'. J: Absolutely. Yeah. Point back to awareness. Go back to awareness. Go back to awareness. R: It's easy to do. It's just like this habit of, I don't know, thousands of years. J: Yes, it's just habit. R: Yeah, that's all it is. I know that. J: Yeah, that's right. It's much more natural to leave your attention in awareness, you know ? Because there's something exhausting in the going out, the going out to create the story – it becomes full of effort. R: Yeah, it does feel very... it feels like home. J: Yes, and that's the relaxed... kicking in. R: But, R- feels like, I don't know... it's just a habit [laughs] and, yeah, there's some beliefs there, the doing, I guess. J: Yes, let them burn out. R: Yeah, just let them burn out. J: Yes, that's it. Don't feed them. Don't be a slave of them. Don't honor them in any way, you know ? Just see them – uh, there's another one, there we go... not going there. R: So worrying about illusions is just another way of... J: Yes, worrying about illusion is a big R- story. R: Ah, it's so tricky. J: Yes, it is that. R: OK, I feel satisfied. Thank you. D: OK, I don't feel satisfied. J: The 'I' never does. It's always temporary. D: I'm D-. Is there anything here ? J: No. D: Nothing at all. J: No. No thing at all. D: Yep, so that's just my extension of her question. I can get, at least intellectually, that what I think is happening is not happening. In other words, the meaning I'm assigning is not real... that it's just my opinion, or my projection. But, again, in a similar vein, I can't see that there's nothing here, that there's no matter, no energy. J: Yes, there's the appearance of matter and energy. It appears. D: It certainly does. J: Yes, but it's no more tangible or authentic than that. D: I can get that where I set the boundaries – your body, this chair, and so on, in terms of my conditioning, conditioned mind... how I formulate the appearance is not 'as it is'. But, just re-stating, I can't see, don't get, even intellectually, that there's nothing there to formulate with. J: OK, OK, but can there be an appearance there, and formulating an appearance happens ? D: I can imagine that it could be that way... J: OK... follow that thread. D: ...with the analogy of movies and the dream state. But what difference does it make whether there's nothing here or not. I mean, whether it's just appearance or whether there's actually something here, and we play with it ? What difference does it make whether we call it appearance or play stuff ? J: Because it will be seen, or it can be seen as appearance. In self-realization, it is seen to be an appearance. So for me to point you at anything less would really be a disservice. Do you know ? And the most authentic that it can be is not play stuff; it's not that. The most authentic is, it's an appearance. D: And, so, does the word 'projection' apply to that ? J: Yes. D: And, what's projecting we don't really know. J: Did it ever happen ? That's where this is lead then, and the mind will just go bananas with that one. But something understands this that is beyond mind. Something understands this, but the mind can't grasp it, but something can and is OK about it. D: I'll have to look for that something. J: You're looking from that something. You're looking out from that something. So, from that something where looking arises from, where's the appearance then ? D: Umm... I don't know the answer is real, but there is no appearance. J: Yes. D: OK. So, my mind can come and say, "But that's just an intellectual concept." J: Yeah, mind will grab anything. That's what mind does. D: But you're suggesting, implying perhaps that what mind is grabbing onto is what's really there, in terms of... J: Yes, it's just trying to understand it. Mind will always try to understand this, but it can't go there. Go there anyway, and see what arises. D: Or what doesn't arise. J: Or what doesn't arise. And where is the appearance in that which you really are ? Behind the arising of D-, what's appearing there ? Is there any thing there ? D: I feel sadness coming up... that attachment to the experience, I guess. J: Yes... you're all of it. How can anything be lost ? Just the 'I' plays at the idea of its own demise. That's a happening in consciousness. It's got nothing to do with you. D: So practice going there. J: Yes, yes... and let the answers arise from there. D: Which is, there's no question. J: Correct. D: OK. S: Hello, my name's S-. J: Hi. S: I was struck by what you said about – there is no experience, it's all concepts. And then, a little later, I think you were speaking with L-, you spoke of just 'pure'. And so, I'm not sure what you meant by 'there is no experience'. I know the resonance of 'pure', that sense of beingness, and it takes different flavors. So I may see a rose or smell a rose, and there's just some sense of 'ah'. And I'm curious if you're saying with that, whatever that sense of... it's a being, I would say it's an aroma of kind of a being something. Is that also what you're saying, there is no experience – that is also illusion or... J: Ultimately, yes. S: Ultimately, yes. And yet I sort of steer, as I sort of feel my way, I feel toward those more wordless... a feeling of flow, and obviously there's a perception of a meeting of two differences in some way. At the same time, it's more like... there's a taste of the beingness, a flavor here, a flavor there. So my question is more... if you want to say more about this territory, I want to hear it, but the usefulness to me is more about, I feel my way by leaning toward what feels more pure, more rested and relaxed and being. And is that useful, from your perspective ? J: It happens along the way, but it's totally within the realm of separation. I would say, throw it out. Throw it out. You're cruising around in circles. With that beingness, with that isness, with, you know, that thing that kind of resonates with something that's beyond it – a total trick of mind. It's a place to hang out, and it's fine, but you leave it. Let it be not good enough. Let it be not good enough. It's a trip. It's lovely, but it's a trip... beyond that... beyond that... or before that. S: Hmm... that feels helpful. Before that. J: Yes, before that... talk from there. S: Can't talk. J: Yeah, absolutely. Where's beingness now ? S: Well, this is my experience of beingness, in a way. It's just another... J: Yeah, go back farther. Go before. Is there before beingness ? S: I would say, the experience now is awareness... is there another question to ask me ? J: Where is beingness ? S: Where is beingness ? I can't comprehend the question. J: Yeah, stay there. S: OK. J: You see ? Beingness is in the realm of duality. It's tricky. Beautiful word, but tricky. Don't settle for beingness. S: Then I get curious about love. J: Uh huh... another trick. S: Say a little more. J: It's a concept, it's a trick. It's just mind presenting an idea as, "Hey, but this is real. Hey, but what do you think of this, hey ?" A mind will do that; that's mind's function. But right now we're exploring what we are prior to mind, you see ? So anything that it can present, it's like, well where's love fit into this picture ? And actually, prior to beingness - ain't no love there ! ! It's prior to love. But it's pureness itself, and it's freedom itself, not the concept of freedom, not something that is pure. It's the essence of pureness, it's the essence of freedom, you know ? Even finer than that – prior to all concepts. And everything arises out of it, love and all of it arises out of it. Don't get bothered with anything that arises out of it. Let engagement happen, and let it do its own thing, but don't follow it, as if it can bring you something. It can't. It can only bring you into illusion... which will bring you into suffering until you decide, "Oh, I'm going to do something about this." "Let's follow the pureness, let's follow the beingness, " and it's like, hey, you're just going around in circles now. Do you see the trick ? It's just a loop of mind to keep the 'I' story going. If something has seen that the 'I' isn't good enough... put attention before all of this... and keep it there. And you can't keep it there until attention has gone out, and then you can put it back. S: Return it there. J: Return it there, yes. S: Thank you. J: You're most welcome. J: So do you see how the seeker is just a trick... as if there's something to gain ?... And somehow everything's OK; how could it not be OK, huh ? How could everything not be OK ? World, with all its lumps and bumps, how could it not be OK ? It's not that there's a denial of it - it's just what you are, doing its thing in manifestation, playing with opposites, pleasure and pain, all the time. And the world will still use your form to alleviate suffering; in whatever big or small way, it will do something, whether it's to help the planet, or help another person, or whatever, that movement will happen. You don't need a perspective on suffering in order to be useful. Drop the idea of being useful, and you will be used more than you can imagine. That's the magic paradox of it. It keeps popping up with these paradoxes, you know ? Manifestation's just wonderful. But the 'I' will try to own anything, and it will just take credit for every single move. It's needed, you know ? ... A: Hi. My name is A-. This morning I was sitting down writing, and asking the question, "Where am I stuck in my life ?" And one of the answers that came up was with regards to money... stresses me out, not having enough, wanting to hold on to it, and then feeling guilty about it, feeling like I should do more, feeling afraid to do that. This is a huge struggle, and I'd like to understand... There's a desire to overcome that. J: OK. Do you have dependents ? A: I have a wife and son. J: OK, that you support financially. Are they independent ? A: Um, I pay the tuition... and I can't quit my job and leave tomorrow. J: Yeah, I was just wondering; because there's always an extra angle on the issue with money if you have to provide for others, you know ? It's a bit easier, of course, to loosen it otherwise. So, can you imagine if your mind started to do... the habit that your mind has around money, if it started to do that thinking habit around fresh air, around oxygen. A: A lot of trouble... because I'm not controlling it. It gives an appearance of control, but then it kicks in, and it has its own life, the breath. J: Yes, it has its own life. It does its own thing. And sometimes there's air that's bad quality, and some air that's better quality, and we breathe all the time, and we don't kind of worry too much. We might open a window, we might not open a window, and we don't even notice that the air isn't fresh, and still, it's OK. Poor quality, a lot of it, a little of it – thinking doesn't go there, thank heaven. And the energy that is air is no different, except in name and form, than the energy that is money. It's just an energy. We live in a world that says it talks, and it's... power, and so there's all these other labels that are on top. But it's just an energy. It will always come and go. You could be amused about its coming and going, or you could be stressed about its coming and going. But the way the mind is connecting to it – use the analogy of fresh air to be where mind goes, in terms of the freedom around it, knowing that - I don't even think, "Will there be enough air or not ?" It's just assumed. And somehow there always is. And there's enough money, too. Somehow there'll always be enough. If there isn't; sure, it's only a length of time when it comes in again. A: And that's the experience. J: Yes, it's a thing that just kind of goes in and out, every now and then. It keeps moving, you see; it's a very potent energy, so it keeps moving; it doesn't stay still for long, especially for people on this path, you know ? People often run out of money and are totally broke, you know ? It's a volatile one, when you're going within, because it's just an energy. But how mind connects to that energy, that's what I'm interested in. A: And to accumulate more of that... want to show off this control. J: Yes, yes – there's no power in having more money. It's an ego fattener. A: But there's always more. J: Yes, there's always more. And the power of it is very short-lived, do you know ? It's like, if I could load the air into the house, I can show off – I'm great, I've got all this air. And it's like, there's only so much of it that you can use; there's only so much money you need; there's only so many things you can buy; there's only so much food you can eat in a day; there's only one car you can drive at any time. But the status that money has – strip it off it. Is that important to you ? Do you need to go after the power that money offers ? Do you need to go there ? Do you want to feel that power ? Is it a desire that you can put aside, or is it a desire that you have to fulfill ? A: No, I don't need to fulfill that. It's just that... it's still sticky. It's a social stress. That's what I'm noticing. For example, if I want to give up what I'm doing right now, and do something totally different, there is fear – that I have certain obligations; I have to meet that; I'm careless if I do that; and so I need to hang on to what I'm doing right now in order to pay the bills and do the things that I'm responsible for. J: Yes. Sure, if you've got a kid that needs educating, of course, that's got to be the priority, you know. But no better position than being stuck to having to support your family, to deal with this issue. A: That's where I'm stuck. J: Yes, and it's fine, because it is going to stay... you know, you're going to have to be the provider to give yourself an opportunity to unstick the money issue. Do you see ? So it's perfect; we're always given what we need. Running away from it wouldn't help to solve it; you'd just postpone it, and put it in another box. Do you see ? You can play a trick on mind, and you can train it to be curious, rather than... because if your mind is attaching to a constriction around money, so when money comes in or a big bill comes in, it's like a contraction happens, you can give your mind a different habit. It's like it's a halfway ground, because if something is very sticky, and I know from the way you talk about it, it's being very sticky – if it's very sticky, it's very difficult to "Oh, observe it, it's just a thought." It won't work; it just won't work. Observe it as a thought ? It's like, yeah, fine but man, my stomach is sick, because I have to do this. It's too sticky. If it's too sticky, the thing you can do is give your mind a different attitude towards money. You can shift the attitude towards it. For some people the attitude of gratitude is really good. So if a bill comes in – "Hey, thank you, universe, for sending me a bill." – literally shifting everything to being grateful. But I don't think that's going to work for you. I think what will work for you is to be curious, is to be curious, "How am I going to balance this now ? Where's this going to come from ? I wonder what will be left at the end of this month, if anything. I wonder if we can afford a holiday this year. I wonder..." – with that lightness of being curious. That will give your mind a new habit, but it's not sticky. And from there, observation can be got, but I think we need a halfway house. Does that make sense ? A: It makes sense, and I'm wondering what that halfway house might look like. The analogy of the air sounded very good... Well, there is a lot of gratitude. I've experienced both. I've experienced abundance, and I've experienced true poverty. J: Yeah, it often comes like this. A: Same thing. J: It's the same thing. Exactly, it's the same thing. It's just doing nothing, you know ? It's just a movement of energy. And is this kind of contraction around money there when there's lots of money around you ? A: Yes.J: Yeah. Amazing isn't it ? So regardless of how much air there is, it's the thoughts about air. Do you see ? It's only the thought – it has nothing to do with how much is there. So then it has nothing to do with balancing the books in your household. It's only your thought around it. Well, give it another thought; give your mind another thought. So, the second the contraction comes in, you've got to observe it. If you can step into observer and say, "Whoa, there's that contraction again." You know it, there's the stress, the financial stress, whatever it is – oh, just recognize it, "I see ya." OK, if you can step back and observe it and just focus on your breath, or focus on a mantra, great. But if you can't, then give mind something else, something really really to chew chew chew on, something to chew on. A: Well, when you said that, the mental image I had was my dog with a bone. When he's had his meal, he just loves to sit there, lie there in the living room and chew his bone. J: And chew away, yes. Yes, so what's your bone ? A: That's what I need to sit with now. I don't know right now. Great question. J: See if one comes... and one will come. A: OK, thank you. J: It's like a loosening, really, isn't it ? It's like something needs to get loose around this. Just the energy between mind and that particular thought pattern – just needs to get looser, that's all. Q: Hi, my name is J-. And I guess my question right now is, that if it's all an illusion, then what is it ? Why are we here ? What is it ? J: Are you here ? Q: Maybe not, but you know, the illusion is that I am, so why is there an illusion even ? J: There's no reason for it. There's no purpose. Q: So there is not even nothing. J: There's not even nothing. Somehow it's perfectly fine. Going in the direction we're going in, something becomes intellectually not knowable. But it's totally knowable by something else. But YOU can't [know] by just cruising around with it, and you can't know anything more certain than that. But something in there knows it's not rubbish. Something in there just kind of says... "I can't use my mind to decide if this is real or not, but at the same time, I'm not throwing it out". Something is not throwing it out. So go beyond what is knowable. And it goes into what's not knowable. I'm just talking about the end of where mind can go, the end of where the intellect can go. So the mind can get to - OK, there's no purpose, OK. The mind can't get 'it never happened' while it's holding on to the illusion 'being real'. It just can't get that it never happened; forget it. But in the unknowable state, where mind doesn't go, and where an arising of something that knows it all... arises – from there, it is seen... gosh, it didn't happen at all, did it ? It didn't happen at all. Doesn't leave much, does it ? Q: No. J: Where are you at with all of that ? Q: Well, you know, it feels like a really foolish question, but my question is, well, so what is God; is that all the illusion, too ? J: Yes. Q: That's all part of... everything. J: Yes. So you can say that God is everything. But God cannot be a part of anything, or apart from anything. It all has to be God, but an object of God – [no way]. It falls through if you examine it. It's just an idea. And then religions usually stop you with the point that, well yeah, beyond that it's a mystery. It's like, hah hah hah, mystery my foot !! Do you know, it's just a nice answer to stop looking, you know ? Q: Or to look harder... J: Or to look harder, indeed – that's what some of us did when we heard that. But somehow, devotion arises from what you are... from that which is behind the idea of you as a human being, or behind the idea of me and the world, behind that, you know, where looking comes from, devotion arises out of there. The mind can say it's for God, or it's for this deity, or whatever, a tree, or anything. If mind wasn't doing that, the label 'devotion' would still arise. It's like it's a natural movement, totally clean, clear natural movement, going from itself to itself, because there's only itself. Or you could say, there's only God, or there's only nothing. But that movement is part of the illusion, for sure, that movement which is part of manifestation, which is the movement of manifestation itself, has devotion as its essence. So no wonder the pull to God, and the love of God, is so potent, because it almost can be traced back to prior to concepts, do you know ? Where is it at for you ? Q: I don't know right now. J: OK. Has God been an external, objective God for you ? Q: No, not completely, I can see that that's a manifestation of whoever is looking and trying to make it something. J: OK. Can God be everything, and can you see that 'God is in everything' cannot be true ? Q: Yes, sometimes it's difficult to see that. Yes, I can see that that could be true. J: ...that these are objects. Q: OK, well I guess it isn't true ... J: You see it's not true that God... Q: ...ego, things I judge to be bad... it's hard to see. J: OK. Right. If the thought is there that God is in everything, then the brain won't compute God is in somebody that's evil. The flaw is, if God is in something – there is a problem. God is not in anything. God is all. So, if God is evil, it's totally different. But the mind very often tries to see God where there's evil. When mind is playing in duality; of course that's not going to work. That's just trying to [stack] one belief on top of another – that can't work. Q: I'm sorry, I don't get that. J: That's all right. There's a problem in viewing evil as God, if the belief is there someplace that God is 'in everything'. If that's seen through, if that's seen as being, you know... it's certainly a Christian doctrine, and maybe it's in other religions, I don't know... if that's seen to be just a belief, check out 'God is everything' and the perspective of evil changes totally. Why can't God manifest as everything and never not being God ? God doesn't lose or gain something by being evil. It's not that God is being evil – God is all of it. The mind says 'evil', 'good'. The mind comes in with that. But manifestation arises out of what God is, and always remains God. And it's just manifesting in different ways, and the idea of 'I' as separate is in there and makes suffering happen. Do you see ? Q: Um, close. J: Yes. Q: OK, thank you. D: It's just occurring to me that 'I' wants to have a vote. J: You mean a political vote, a democratic vote ? D: A vote on how it turns out, and how it is. J: Oh, right... well, drop that one, huh ? D: Rather a hopeless notion. J: Indeed, yeah. L: Seeing source in thought, it's clear that it's all just thought and belief, and it has no substance. It's like the whole dream arises from a thought, and seeing or focusing on the source of thought kind of disables the world. It's just like coming into that place of just ... and now any word that used is a distortion, but it's the presence of being in the moment without any reference point. J: OK. Now, the being in the moment without any reference point... L: That was probably not a good way to describe... J: All right, because I'll go after that. L: Yeah, I was adding something that really wasn't coming from what I was feeling. Yeah, it's just simply resting in the moment, and then thought arises, and seeing – oh, that's just a thought. J: OK, yes, it's just a thought; whatever can pop up is just a thought. L: Yeah, so this whole idea of – is the world real or illusionary – it's just kind of seeing it from this place that I'm saying... it's all thought, and I'm either putting meaning on it, giving it value and meaning, and I'm following it - and then there's a 'me' and then there's 'all this' - or just staying with the source of thought, which just kind of evaporates; it loses its power. J: Yes, it does lose its power, yes. Something doesn't rise to give the movie its fuel, you know ? The natural state prevails. L: And then I guess... I do have when a thought arises, and then there's a period when there doesn't seem to be any thoughts, you know ? And so I have this fantasy of, well my God, I will sit here forever, and what would happen ? But then there's a realization that when the body needs to move, it's going to move. And one doesn't have to resist that; it's just like... J: Well, it would take an 'I' to resist it, you see. L: Thank you. J: It would take an 'I' to resist it. L: Yeah, there you go. So, it's easy to get into another concept... it's so subtle, and I guess the thing is not to resist; it's like, there's a movement to do something, and then OK, so then there's a doing. But as you say, if there's going to be any struggle, then that's the 'I' coming up. J: Yes, that's right. There's an organic flow, which will move the body, which will function perfectly – it will go to work, and it will drive the car, and it will do everything. And it doesn't need 'ownership' at all. L: Yeah, I was interested in the gentleman before about leaving the job, and this whole thing, and it's kind of like getting out of the way of decision making. And, as you say, stay curious and don't get involved in that decision making, because it will be made without the 'I', and that's going to be... it feels like it's just effortless, and it's just part of the fabric of the whole, which is not going to leave something left out. J: Correct, it will be the optimum decision. L: Yeah, exactly... but there's such a habit of thinking, "I've got a problem. 'I' have a problem, and 'I' want a solution." And there's just this 'I' that's the whole problem. J: Correct, that's right. L: And without that 'I' identification there isn't a problem. J: That's right. There's no problem with any of it. Without identification, there can't be a problem, because there's only God unfolding as God. L: Yeah, how can there be a problem if God is everything ? J: Yeah, and you are God. So where's the problem ? L: That's too simple. [Laughs] J: But you see it has to be simple. Truth has to be simple. L: That's what it feels like. J: It has to be simple. Simple and natural, clean, easy – it has to be. L: What a relief ! J: Even if the 'I' is subtly saying, "Time to go home yet ?" - it's another 'I' thought. It will use anything. They all have to be seen, and not followed, you know ? They're all equally useless.... Let every attempt of the mind to send up a thought, no matter how insignificant it might seem – it's just a puff of smoke, you know ? It's just a puff of smoke. Don't follow, there's no fire. Even the ones that seem so simple, "Oh, I must go for a pee." Like anything, the body will get up when it needs to pee, you know ? There's nothing, nothing that needs to be managed... by that 'I'. And when you're being a parent, the role of being a parent will happen, and when you're at work, work will happen, you know ? The functioning will take care of those things. Let the role be played, and know it's not you. Know that it's not you. The role is just being played. What you are is behind it, and let the role function away, do you know ? Don't get personal about the role. That's where the 'I' connects to any role that you have to play in the world. Then there's a 'you' who is playing the role. You see ? Let the role just be played through your form. Take out the personal. There's no personal. There's just concepts that we're talking about here, the creation of all suffering.... So it looks like you could step out of the way, you know, and let consciousness just use your form, which it's doing anyway. Just step out of the way. D: So 'I' have a problem with chronic headaches, and one's coming in now, and so I hear it recommende; just experience it, be with it, feel it, don't judge it. J: Too much, too much, too much. D: Welcome it. J: Too much. It's all about 'you' in relation to 'it', 'you' in relation to 'it', with a personal 'I' in there having a relationship with a chronic headache. Do one thing – have no desire for it to be different. Don't run desire around it. D: Have no desire to not be in pain. J: Right. D: So that feels like just, I can let the pain be, and focus on the source; not the source of the pain, but the same thing we were talking about before – go there. J: Sure, go there. But you will find that when there's a headache happening, that the thing that pulls your attention from outside of the whole show is the desire for the pain to go. So if you don't run a desire, attention can stay at home. D: 'I' want that to be a solution. J: Oh, you want that to make the headaches go ? D: Yeah. J: Then the desire for the headaches to go is running. That's what I'm after. That's what I'm after – let there be no desire for the headaches to go. D: Then see what happens. J: Then see what happens. And if your body takes Advil, your body takes Advil. I'm not saying, don't intervene in any way. Solutions can come, the body will still move and do its thing. But don't run the desire for the pain to go. Go after the desire. The desire creates the 'I' who's having the pain. So the desire is creating the 'I'; now we've got a sufferer... whereas the headache can exist without it being a cause of suffering, if there's no 'I'. There must be an 'I' in place for one to be suffering. Do you see the link ? D: But not to be in pain. J: Pain isn't an issue. Pain isn't the issue. D: It is for 'I'. [Laughs] J: It is for 'I' because 'I' wants to be the sufferer, because it wants the pain to go. The 'I' can only suffer if it wants something to go. It must be running a desire for something to be different in order to suffer. The experience of suffering cannot come in without a desire for something to be different. D: I'm going to stay in confusion for a minute. J: Yeah, I know, I'm trying to pull you back into the step before desire, and it's like, too sticky. OK ? D: OK, so 'I' wants to be rid of chronic headaches, to be rid of that condition, not just of the pain in the moment when it comes up. I'm hearing, don't want or worry about getting rid of headaches, or chronic condition... J: No... don't run the desire for the chronic condition to go. D: Right, as long as the chronic condition is there, treat it any way that you want to, and let go of the desire... J: Have no desire for it go to, yes. Go after desire in this one. D: I'll sit with that. J: Yeah, I know it hasn't cracked yet. I'm waiting, and I know it hasn't cracked yet. It's all right, it will. D: OK. L: What about just being the headache, just be totally the headache without doing... J: Yeah, you can do all those techniques, sure. L: I mean, I find personally that seems to help... D: To get rid of the headache ?... [Laughter] L: Oh, I'll shut up.... [Laughter] J: "I want the headache to go" is the most potent thing you can go after, the most potent thing. "I want the headache to go." D: Well, and part of that that's important is the 'I'. J: At the moment, it's all together... because the desire is creating the 'I'. D: It is the 'I'. J: Yeah... so you might have to do it fifty times in a minute, you know ? Like, "no desire for this headache to go; no desire," and watch the battle going on in your head. It's fine, headache's here, headache's not here; all right. The 'I' wants it to go, and it might, and it might not – that's the 'I' story. The headache is actually just a headache, happening to nobody, but the 'I' will take it personally, and then it's 'my' headache, and then I want to do something about it, because the 'I' will always try to control. Why can't headaches be there ? D: I'll go back to – easy for you to say. [Laughter] J: Yeah, this body has had an awful lot of physical pain all through its life. I can tell you it's doable, totally doable, to use the desire for pain to go as a tool to find the 'I'. Q: So what I'm hearing is that the... it's really all about fidelity to what's prior to the 'I am'. And just stay there. J: Yes, that's what the 'I' can do, until it is seen that, "Oh, I am that which is prior." - prior to all of it. Q: Yes, but it wakes up. J: It's even independent of waking up. That part of it is independent, because at some point, the brain starts to work differently, because you know that, "Oh my God, it's completely exhausting to go after a thought." It's completely... and you can feel that, instead of the effort to go behind the 'I am', that it's effort to invent it, any kind of enthusiasm in an 'I' thought. You see ? But, it's like it realigns itself to its original blueprint, you know ? Oh my God, she was sitting here all the time – what was I doing, going out to come back, going out to come back ? And it rebalances itself. And that happens independently to the overall seeing, and I suppose the seeing is the waking up... the seeing of how it works. But I've heard that happen to people. In satsang, and sustaining it after satsang... but you know it's total effort to do self-inquiry, it's total effort to do any spiritual practice. Spiritual practice creates the 'I' at this point. It's creating the 'I'. And even while there isn't much 'I' there, even a smidgen of it is too much.   Listen to this audio satsang : Seattle, April 29th, 2010

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Download this satsang transcribe :   Jac: Satsang is a funny sort of a thing because if you leave this evening with something, then it's only the ego, it's only who you think you are that goes away with something. And that'll happen – or not. But know that that's not you, that that just happens. It's a mechanism of mind, a mechanism of the brain, it's a series of thoughts and it's not you. They're not even your thoughts, but everything in the planet tells you they're your thoughts and you have to be responsible for them. Well, not anymore. Thoughts pass by – it's just part of the human functioning. They're not yours. Nothing can be yours, because if something is yours then something can exist that's not yours, and something can be somebody else's and if it's theirs - hey, we've got a whole load of separation going on. The truth is, it's not like that at all. These are just a bundle of concepts that seem to make the world function. But without these concepts, the world just functions the very same. But your mind will tell you this is not truth. So all I can do is tell you, find out and prove it to me if I'm telling you rubbish. Find out for yourself. I can't give you to yourself. I can't give you what you are because it's already there and you're looking out from there, looking for it. But try as you might to stop looking out, the looking out will continue. Let the looking outwards for something to make it right, for the next thing, the next kick, the next distraction, the next thing to make you happy - let the looking outside of yourself continue. It's got nothing to do with you. Nothing to do with what you are. But this idea that you're an individual person will stick on to these ideas like glue, it'll just completely be a locked tight belief system. Anybody totally lost? It's OK. Satsang is about offering a space of where you don't have to be who you think you are. Whoever you thought you were until now is just who you thought you were. Let it be no more than that. A series of thoughts and beliefs – I am this person, this is my life. Without those thoughts the role of parent, lover, mother, whatever – they will still continue without the attachment to the belief that it's your scene, your life. Who you are is not who you think you are. As long as you look for who you might be if you're happy, or what is it that will make you happy or even looking for truth, even that activity, takes your attention away from what you are, because what you are is behind it, it's behind everything. Or in time, maybe it's before even time began. You're that huge. Infinite beyond infinite, but you're not an object, you're not a thing. But the magnificence of creation has allowed the idea that you can have a life, that you can experience. It's just fantastic how it's actually plausible and man, is it plausible. We all fall for it when we think we're separate. If you check out to see if these things are true beyond a belief, you'll find that they're not. You'll find they're not. And your mind will fight everything that's said here. And let that go on, that's just another happening. I can't give you anything, because you are all of it. Stop believing your thoughts and the truth of this will show itself to you. You're not a part of something huge. You are all of it, manifesting as though there is separation. That's just the quality of manifestation. What a wonderful gift it is, but don't believe it for a moment. You are all of it. This isn't something to fatten the ego, like whoa, I"m everything? and if you're going to define yourself, you've already lost it, you've gone into an object again. Even to say "I'm all of it" – we can pull that apart too and say, all of what? Because you are all that manifests, and all that is before and after manifestation. Not even confined to what manifests, but much more. Because it's only a tiny part of the beyond infinite you. So what I'm pointing to is beyond your mind. Mind will love it or hate it. That's fine, let mind do its thing. It's either always going to say yes or no because it is the thing that makes separation seem to exist. It is the thing that defines duality. So mind is going to love this or hate this. But don't go down that path, don't believe it. It'll either like people or dislike people. Of course, it's always going to sit in one camp or the other. So what? So what? That's mind. Pick it up when you need it and drop it when you don't. It's just a tool, like your body, like your digestive system. It's all just there to be used. Find out how to use your mind, not to be a slave of it. Not to be following everything it churns up. If you haven't been watching it so far, start watching it. And then for some it will make sense that even watching mind is also a play of mind. Because what's watching mind except mind! So even that watching mind is too much – at a certain point, even that's too much. So behind even that – leave your attention there – 24/7. And something will show itself. If anybody would like to come... Questioner: Jackie, I just love what you just said about that even watching it can be too much at one point. I had an experience this winter where I was actually normally quite blissed out and everything and watching nonstop and listening to satsangs and very deeply on the spiritual path as I've been for many years. And that particular day I felt very depressed for some reason, I went on a walk and I was focusing on a number of physical ailments that I'm still fighting with, the swallowing and sleeping, and all of a sudden the attention shifted from focusing on those symptoms to the witness or observer that they're arising to and in that minute it felt like everything fell away, the effect fell away as well as the witness fell away. I was able to swallow much, much better after that for a while. It's coming back and going and so on. But I've had some discussions with friends of mine who have studied "5000 Years of Advaita" and said that we are really the ultimate perceiver and in my experience that wasn't so. The ultimate perceiver was untouched by anything, like the witness was still completely dual. The observer was dual and the arisings that are arising to that witness are one in the same package, and they're not us. And I would just like to know – I found inner confirmation with what you just said basically and I don't need to ask anymore. J: Yes, because the ultimate perceiver is still doing something. It's still perceiving something – there's nothing to perceive. There's actually nothing to perceive. Q: Untouched, unchallenged. Thank you so much. J: And in a way, any word we can use for that which is beyond is too much. It's gonna get it wrong because words are part of the dualistic thing. Words came in after separation was believed so that we can communicate, so therefore we must believe we're separate in order to have to communicate. So language is way down the line. So then what do we call that which is beyond language? Let it be OK that there's no word. Use God if you need to, use emptiness if you need to, and anything in between, it's fine. But if you can, let it be OK that there's no word, so that there's no concept. So that there's no me and it. But even though there's no word, something within you knows what I'm talking about. Something within you knows that there's something beyond all of this and I don't know what it is. And you'll never know what it is because that's mind saying it wants to know something. You'll never know – the thing that wants to know what's happening and whatever, the thing that wants to know a bit of news cannot know what this is. But it's kind of like it's deeper than intuition – it's that kind of a path. It's like you know something, but you don't know what you know. That's probably as good as it's going to get for your mind. But of course you know it, it's what you are, of course you know it. But mind gets in the way, so we play at forgetting. That's all. So even if the ultimate perceiver, the ultimate – I don't know – the source – is even too much. The ultimate perceiver cannot be ‘cause what would be perceiving? We need two for it to see something. It's too late. We're already back in the movie. So where I'm pointing to is kind of nothing, nothing, nothing. Now take that away. And somehow there's ease and there's rest and there's peace and there might be a layer of fear. That's fine, that's mind saying "you don't need me anymore? You're kidding!" That's alright – that fear will play its dance. It's alright. It will come and it will go, like every emotion. Q: How does one reconcile or balance the accepting everything as it is now and the nothingness with focusing the attention of the mind on things to do to take care of the body. Or you've made a commitment to someone, I'm going to do this for you. You have to focus some attention for it to be done. So how do you reconcile the nothingness with focusing the mind on something. J: OK. There's 2 phases to that. For a while, you have to focus on what needs to be done but with nothing extra. So for example, if you're preparing lunch, you're just using your mind to prepare lunch. You're not, "hmmm, imagine if I go to the shop and bought that ingredient", don't go there. Let it be as simple as it can be. So in the taking care of the body or honoring a commitment, let it be pared down to simply that activity. So that will get rid of all doubts about it, that will get rid of all criticisms about it ‘cause you will do what you will do. And there will be no attachment to the outcome. So all the extra periphery thinking around an activity, that's the problem. You see, the mind in its working, that's the correct use of mind, if I can say "correct". That's the natural use of mind, to use it to write an email, to use it to whatever, make a call, and make lunch, and buy a new sweater and whatever it needs to do. That's the natural functioning of mind. Now, the stuff that creates suffering, that capacity of mind, says "no, not today, I think I'll do that tomorrow. Oh I forgot to do that. Oh, what are they going to think if I didn't do that." OK, that's what I'm talking about. That stuff can just go straight away. If you can watch mind and get rid of all of that superfluous cruising about your thoughts, you'll find that somehow the other functioning won't take a quarter of the amount of energy. The functioning of cooking lunch will just automatically – "oh, I'm cooking lunch, I didn't have to think about it". And something will be doing it. So it's not a matter of balancing at all, it's about getting rid of what's not needed. And let the working mind continue. The thinking mind – that's the creator of suffering. Does that make sense? Q: It makes sense. So what if the mind has this idea of "OK, I want to do this". So that's a little more involvement. J: Yes, there's already desire now. Q: Like I want to come to satsang, or I want to find a certain kind of job, or certain situation, a place to live, whatever. You have an idea that you want to create something, you want to manifest something physically and you want to manifest an idea physically. So that's getting a little more entangled. J: Yeah, ‘cause you've gone into desire now. Q: So while we're in the midst of that, how do we minimize the involvement or the chatter or the superfluousness, or whatever you want to call it? J: At some point, it will make sense to not follow any desire. To just see that as another bit of garbage that cruises on up there. If you don't follow any desire at all, something will move to buy the newspaper that has the apartments for rent. Something will see the right sign, somebody will say I'm moving out of this place and it will come to you.It will come to you. Thinking that you have to make stuff happen – it's not so. Life is happening beautifully without you doing a thing. The steps will be shown and there will be this compulsion to take action sometimes – "I don't why I did this". A simple example – did you ever buy a birthday card for somebody and you didn't know if it was somebody's birthday or not, but you just bought a birthday card? And lo and behold, could be 2 months later but there is a birthday and you forgot about it and you had a card already. That kind of thing multiplied by a gazillion. Things taking care of themselves. But it can only come in if you stop following desires. Because as long as you think you're in control of making things happen, well that story will continue to play. So if you loosen the reins a bit, and you say, OK, there's a desire there to change my job. Let's see what happens. And something will happen or else the work will become fine. But you will be moved out, you will be moved. Q: In meditation, contemplation, self-inquiry, just even asking "who am I" – I find that there's a kind of a push to look. I don't know if push is the right word, but there's a movement looking. J: Do you find something? Q: No, of course not. No. J: So does the looking stop, or what happens? Q: I think it kind of pauses and then it's like oh yeah, I should be looking, so I start looking again. It can come to a pause, it can go into slumber, it doesn't have one way of being. J: OK. When the idea "oh, I should be looking" when that comes up, there's just another I story happening. It could be "oh, I'm going to make a phone call", it could be anything. It's just another I story. The important thing is like well, who? Who's saying this anyway? And sometimes the trap door will open. Sometimes a space will happen and you don't know what happened. A pause. Sometimes something slips through. But you won't know until after, until you're back again, until the next "oh, I should be….". Then we're at it again. Now, in the meantime, whether you were caught up in fairy tales or a movie you saw last night or whether mind actually had no attention, as in your attention was outside of it all. After some time you'll get to see, whoa, I was definitely caught up in a whole string of thoughts there. And sometimes you won't know. Don't be bothered too much about what happened before the idea of saying ‘who' again. It's about when you recognize, oh, "who's doing this, who's thinking this?" Because then you're observing. So whether there's no attention on thoughts and something is outside of all of it or whether you're caught in the movie, it's very difficult to tell which because there's no space until you're observing again. And you're observing again when you're saying, oh, I'm sitting here to do self inquiry. OK, now we're back on the springboard again – does that make sense? Q: So you're saying while you're looking again, it's just before you realize, oh I need to look, that there's space or while you're looking? J: While you're looking there's mind, mind is actively doing something. There's a you that's doing something, being very busy. Q: Try me again. J: OK. So when you say, who am I – do it now. Who's sitting there? Just ask that inside, who's sitting there? Q: So it's sort of, I don't know if vacant is the right word, but something…I mean not something… J: Yeah, "vacant" points in that direction. Q: So there's a kind of looking with no, I want to say with no purpose, even though my attention is sort of (?), but there's nothing coming up. J: That's fine. Do you want more? Do you want bells on? Do you want something to happen? Q: Probably! J: That's mind looking for a distraction, looking for another story. Q: So there's that kind of – if I call it attention – or vacancy while doing this… J: The doing that you're describing is the pointing of mind towards the direction. For you, that's what was happening there. In the searching what you were doing was OK mind you're going in that direction, you're not going towards the movie, you're going in that direction. And it's like you were steering it. Perfect. It is about pointing the mind away, it feels like it's in a different direction to the I stories. That's as much as the searching can do. That's what it's designed to do is to point the mind towards what is vague, vacant. And then, there's nothing. And you won't even know that there's nothing really, because you have to have a thought to think it's nothing, and we're back into the story again. So the best you can do is point mind towards it, which is the activity of looking for the I, but you know there's nothing going on. Q: OK, so the nothing would be one of those words like source or… J: Prior to source…. Q: So the thing is to remind the mind to direct itself toward that. J: That's exactly it. Mind is reminding mind to direct itself. Exactly. When mind is directed in that way physiologically, conditioning burns up. It's the fastest therapy you'll ever do in your life. It totally just burns up conditioning. The old beliefs drop away when mind is pointed in that direction. And you won't know if it works or not, because it's not about it working. The best you can do is increase the frequency of when you caught that – oh, do self inquiry here. It's the frequency with which you point mind towards that which is vacant. It's the frequency. Because you can't stay there – there's no you there. There's just nothing happening. But the thought that there's nothing happening, already you're back in the movie. It's a bummer, you know? You get caught every way! Q: OK, so let's say mind is being directed toward something. And then when I remind myself to look again – what's the difference between mind directing itself and me reminding myself? J: It's the same thing, it's just a thought. You're a thought. You are mind directing mind. You're a thought – that's the cause of suffering. Because the me that's directing my mind is the product of the thought. You're just an idea. Q: And then as you said, as you're doing that, the conditioning burns up which is mind. J: Yes, which is mind. It's the frequency that's important. The frequency of doing it. And watch when mind wants a distraction or something to happen. It's like, forget it, it's not about that. It's not about an experience. You're either finished with experiencing or not, but there'll be no experiences with this. It's just the end of the show. Mind won't like it , it doesn't want to die. Q: So there can be an end to the show while the body is moving around and I guess thoughts would still be moving… J: They can, but you'll know that it's not you. That they're not your thoughts. The seeing of how it works just shows itself. Q: Thank you. J: Hi. Q: Hi. I spent this last winter with Mooji in Tiru and was in this no-mind place a lot, and then I came home, and a week ago, this enormous, like horrific thing happened in my home. Involving all this legal stuff and really horrible stuff. And we were like watching as it took place. And then afterwards all this fear was happening and I'd wake up in the middle of the night every night and I'd cry and all this stuff surfacing. Well, the I is perplexed like "what is going on?" And I don't know if you can tell me but this question about the interaction of living in being and then what takes place in this dualistic life. Like the life the little me is living – there's this perplexedness about, why would suddenly this potentially worse thing in my life enter my life. J: Why not? Q: Because the I doesn't want it! J: Ah, so we have a desire. There goes the reason you're perplexed. There's a desire. There's something you don't want. Q: Throughout every day now, I'm moving in and back out, and in and back out…like constantly. It's like, no this can't happen. J: It's the desire for it to stop or it to be different that's making the I seem real again. Desire will do it every time. If there's a desire running, and you're caught onto it, and "I don't like…" – if you're able to finish that sentence, of course the little me is full on. Where's no mind? Q: So, no mind is just watching…I don't even know who to call who, but there's a watching going on. And then there's an involvement going on and then a watching going on. Do you know what I mean? There's a remembering and then there's a watching. There's a forgetting and back in. J: Who said it has to be trouble-free? Who says that once I get the spiritual stuff it's just gonna be "sail on home, babe"? Q: OK, yeah. But way worse than ever before? J: So who says it can't get worse? Where's the belief that it must get better? Q: The small me says if that's the deal then what's the point? J: What's gonna happen is gonna happen. How you respond to it, you can do something about that. Maybe the worst thing hasn't even happened yet. Maybe something really awful is going to come. If you're in observer mode, or if even that has finished, it won't make any difference because it's not happening to anybody. But you believe it's happening to you. Only because there's a desire for it to be different. Stop running the desire. And the little me will not appear. Q: But the watching isn't running anything. The little me – I don't know how else to describe this… J: You're doing fine. Q: So who stops running the desire? J: Mind. Mind switches it on and mind switches it off. Q: OK, so who switches the mind this way and the other? J: Mind. It happens in consciousness. But as long as you think you're an individual, then you think you're doing it. Q: Right. J: So do it. As long as you think you're a person, of course, do what you can. Q: I'm like living in 2 kind of worlds at the same time now. J: Absolutely. And when you get a lot of spiritual information, what one often does is take things that are appropriate for another stage of the journey and try to apply them now. And the whole thing gets mixed up. There might be a bit of that happening. Q: OK. Let me just settle with that for a minute. Can you give me an example? J: You have to work out from the level of consciousness you're at. So if it's like, OK there's a desire that this stuff isn't happening at home, well, there's no me anyway so who'd be stopping the desire? And the desire stays running. The desire will just get fueled. But if it's like, OK, this one thinks she doesn't want this to happen, OK, so that's honest to goodness where it's at. So, fine, that thought is happening so I'm not gonna follow it. It's not my desire, that's it, not feeding the desire. It's fine as it is. And if it's gonna get worse, I'll welcome that too. Now there's no desire for it to get better. OK. Now it isn't as sticky. But the opposite thing then is, well, OK so if I was to stop this desire then that would be mind stopping this desire and it's just happening in consciousness anyway. Q: Could you slow down a little bit? J: Oh yeah, it's the Irish thing, sorry. Q: It's more the speed of the ideas cuz I'm having to take them in as you're saying them and it's too fast… J: It's too much. OK, so the thing to watch for is to work out from the level of consciousness that's playing in that form. Q: It's shifting back and forth so do I work out from the one that I'm in at the present? J: The thing is don't bring in a theory to solve something. Work with what looks like it's real at any moment. Q: But it is real that there's these 2 … J: There's only one at any time. Q: OK. So when I'm in one then work from there and when I'm in the other, work from there. J: There's a different set of laws with both. In one, the little I doesn't like what's happening. The desire is giving birth to the little I who doesn't like it, who wants things to change, who's fearful, who's crying, blah blah. How did she get born, that idea of "her" that's feeling these emotions now and suffering? How did she get born? She only got born from a desire. It was a desire. Q: For it to be different. J: For it to be different. Yes, in this scenario, for it to be different. Go after that desire. Nothing else. Don't go after "this shouldn't be happening in my life because …" – it's like, hold on, come right back, what's the desire giving all of this story its magnitude? What's the desire? That's what you go after. That's how you get caught. That's what makes the I born. Q: OK, can I just feel into that? J: Yeah. Q: OK. So the thought starts and then the desire starts, so then the thinker with it. J: That's right. See that it's a desire and already you're observing. The desire is the fuel supply for the I. So if you can go after desires you've stopped the fuel supply and you're automatically an observer. Q: Right, if I'm not already caught in it. J: If you're caught in it, you've believed the desire and you're off in there. Q: And so if that happens... J: You back-pedal and say, OK what's the desire to make this feel like I'm in pain here? What's behind this, what do I want? Q: And then that will put me back into witnessing. J: And drop the desire and bingo. If you drop the desire, there's no I. Q: And then I'm in the witness which is the pull-back into the other place and then live from there. J: Mmmm, yeah and do self inquiry from there. That's only a stepping stone in the middle of the stream, you know? The observer. You can either go one of 2 ways. You can't hang out in observer for long. You're either going to go back into the movie and go for observer again and keep doing that, or do self inquiry. It depends which way you go. Q: So from there, self inquiry would be… J: Who's observing. Q: Right. And then that opens into observing - sometimes. J: It does what it does. Point mind there and let what happens happen. The more you can observe right now though, the more it will be important. Because if there's high drama happening, just observe. Taking that last step, it's gonna be too much. If the pull into whatever's going on at home is that strong, the best you can do is keep watching for that desire. Watch the desire and go behind it. Observe it and see that it's a desire and don't feed it. Don't go into the story of the desire. That's the best you can do when there's high drama going on. Q: When I awake in the morning, I try to sort of feel between the thoughts to no-thought and sustain that for whatever. And then it's this in and out thing through the day, until the desire thing. J: OK. So you have practices to kind of place your attention away from thoughts. OK, that's fine. Go after the desire. You gotta do that or otherwise, it's just going to fatten the I. Go after the desire. Anything else is just cruising around. OK? Q: Yeah, OK. J: Really, if you get that working tightly, you've broken a desire that's obviously repetitive. Q: OK. Alright, thanks. J: Thank you. Q: (from earlier questioner) I'm sorry, may I ask one more thing? I have a really pressing question that I haven't been able to resolve inside. I have been able to resolve it many times inside just in meditation there was absolute clarity, but when I read Ramana Maharshi or Nisargadatta or anything except your books, then it goes against everything the ancient scriptures say. And that is just about this human play where so many times it's said it's all a play of the divine, and then there comes this thought sometimes in meditation, what kind of cruel play would this be, you know when you observe the world. And to me it seems in deep, deep meditation when there's no self that it's actually only ever a superimposition, and that while real no self remains completely untouched, unchallenged, pure, unfettered, the superimposition depends on no self, but not the other way around. No self is untouched from the superimposition, and really this all never really happened. It's just an optical… J: Yes that's right. Q: Thank you. J: It never happened at all. There is no divine play. The divine can't play. Q: Yeah, why would it? It was born out of a desire and that made all this possible, bodies and the world… J: Can you imagine God having a desire? Be a nightmare. Q: No, exactly. It's dream dreaming itself. J: Yes. Q: OK, thank you so much. J: You see it's much simpler, really isn't it. It's much more pure… Q: Clean J: Clean. That's what it is, it's clean. Yes. Q: Thank you for resolving that because so many books go so against that, and it's sort of like my inner knowing says differently. J: Listen girl, you're your own guru! Go after your inner knowing totally cuz that's where it is. You know and so many of the books are, they were written for their time or they might be a transcription of satsang which was directed to the person who was there. Everything has its context, but your own gut – test it and retest it – but you know what, it's rarely wrong. If a knowing comes with the stillness… Q: Thank you. I found so many contradictions in the book "Be As You Are" by Ramana Maharshi where on page 32, I believe, he said look at everything as if it is a cinema show and see the audience within the screen as well, and sort of like, see the subtle witness imposition as well as all the arisings, all on the screen. Not really in the screen, part of the screen, but a superimposition on the screen cuz only the screen is ever real. You go to the screen and touch it, whatever movie figures are on there, the quality or essence is always the harmless rope, it's never the snake we think it is. And…I lost my train of thought. Oh yeah, on that one page he says, self created the ego, and then later in the book he says the opposite, you know. And so I understand now he was probably saying that to the questioner at the time and the translation… J: Or the translation changes the original.. Q: Yeah, cuz that went against an inner knowing and I thought, what kind of cruel play would that be with the state the world is in when we look at it from that level. And that's very liberating. J: Yeah. It's just clear. Q: It's grace, thank you. J: It's beautiful when it shows itself, but whoa, this didn't happen. This is just a, I don't know… Q: Like an optical illusion? J: Yeah, a kind of an optical illusion. A hologram. It's that kind of imagery. Q: Yes, at most one could maybe say that the self allowed this to happen out of this innocent wish to see, if one went biblical now, if one was the tree of life and one wanted to see what would the tree be like… J: But those thoughts don't happen in the self, but mind imagines, oh let's project thoughts on God, let's project an activity. It's like hey, go back in, go back into the silence and see. And there's nothing happening. Deep down inside you there's nothing going on and that's where it's at. Q: I love that about your last blog post very much where you said, that spiritual progress or any progressive path is really a lot of rubbish because it always ends in this loop of infinity again and right here, right now, when you drop it all. It was so clear and beautiful and simple. J: Let it get simple, you know, it's simple. The search for truth is the game, another game of the I. But truth itself is just so pure and simple and just there. And accessible. Q: Thank you. J: Hi. Q: So, it seems to me as you said that this should be very simple and easy, immediate, and all that. At the same time, it seems to me that perhaps I'm missing something, but maybe you can help me work through it just briefly. If there's a me, if there's an I – is there something extracted from what actually is? J: Yes, OK. Q: So if what actually is, is just what's happening, what's happening now without interpretation, without the need to conceptualize it and create a story around it, then that's the whole thing. J: Yeah, can I pull it back one more step? Q: Please. J: What's happening is already a concept. Q: OK, how so? What's happening is being conceptualized as it happens? Or immediately after it happens? J: In order to see that there's something happening right now, there's already the function of conceptualizing going on. To say that there's something happening, already, we have a concept. Q: OK, so there's nothing that can be said. J: Yes. Stay with it – there's nothing that can be said, yes. Q: Well, there's many things that can be said, but it's whether or not they're given belief, I guess? J: Yes. Q: (laughter) J: Yeah, it's kinda nuts. It is really because whatever we say, we've already lost the plot. The thing is, talking will happen. Believing it…hahaha. Talking will happen, functioning will happen, living will happen. But if there's an identification with an individual, that's what I'm after. So it's not about, well then I can't talk anymore. Don't try to stop talking, that won't last very long unless you go someplace where there's no people. Of course, there's no problem about functioning happening. The thing is, get the idea of "I exist as an individual" out of the way. Q: But who does that? J: It's like the I gets rid of itself. There's nothing else that can get rid of it. Mind uses mind to kill itself. Q: Well here's the thing. I feel like I can see that it's just a concept, this I, this whole business. But then at the same time, me saying that I see this, is just another story around another I. J: Yes, but it's alright. No concept of itself is a problem. But the concepts that are associated with the I getting weaker sound like that and they constantly sound like they're contradicting each other. So the language gets a bit crazy because we're kind of coming to the end of the line of language because it's so dualistic. Do you see? So, OK you can know that you don't exist, you can know that. But if there is identification happening with some story and it's happening in MY life, or I'm defending myself, now we've got pain. Pain is gonna happen there. Q: No I can see that the only way to suffer is to believe in a separate I. That imagines something different and compares and is not completely at home with what is as it is. And it's purely imaginary to believe that it could be different or should be different. And so that's the whole suffering thing right there. But I still suffer after having seen that. J: Then use the mind to watch when the mind is plugged in to the suffering movie. That's the only tool mind has. It has to use itself. You have to use an idea to get rid of an idea. It's like they say, one thing to pull out a thorn is another thorn. Or if you're lighting a bonfire, you use the stick to poke it up, but the stick is being burned as well. It's that thing in nature that the thing that's promoting is also being destroyed. So that's the magic of it if you use the mind to stop the "oh, wow, I think I'm real here". OK, mind is doing that and mind can go back into observer mode. And the more often that's done, the less often that story will run. Simply because you're changing a habit in your brain. Does it make sense? Not really? Q: Yes, it does. It just feels difficult for me right now but I'll let it spin around and see what happens. J: Then stay where there's nothing to talk about. Place your attention there and somehow the rest of it will fall into place. It really will. Q: OK. Thank you. J: Hi. Q: My question about your instruction how to place mind where the next thought would be. You said do it 24 by 7. I got the idea but like, do I do that in meditation or can I do that? J: The purpose of meditation is to make your mind focus on one thing so that it stops hopping around the place. There will come a time when there's too much mind in meditation. But also, meditation might just continue for you. Just that practice of honing down the mind to one point. That might continue and that's OK. But placing attention away from any practice, away from any meditation, any management of mind. Because, you see, to meditate there must be a belief that mind needs to be managed, that there's something to be gained out of meditation. There's a whole load of I beliefs running with meditation. So placing attention at the source of the next thought, it's that little bit deeper than meditation. Because it brings mind not to where it's being trained, but to the place of where it can't go. It can't go there. Q: But, in daily life, you have to work and do other things. So what I'm saying is that you cannot really do that at work. Can you do that at work? J: Some people do. They have their multitasking skill switched on so that they're able to function on the outside and deliver and be at a meeting and something back there is watching. Do you know? Now, that thing back there that's watching, send that to the source of the next thought. Q: Wow. I mean observing, I practice that, it helps a lot to observe myself. So that I don't react to people's whatever. So you say that with practice that can happen in daily life. J: Absolutely. Before the observer, at the source of the next thought, it's like there's some kind of a cushioning that happens in the mental ability. It becomes like a cushion. There's something restful that comes out of there. And it shifts that observer feels like it's too rough, it's too coarse, even observing is too thick, too much in the movie. Do you see? That shift will happen. That observer feels like it's too much in there. Q: So step back further. J: So step right back. So what you're doing then is totally letting go of the reins because your attention is going right to its very source then you kinda gotta trust it that the right thing is gonna come out if you're at work and it will, it will. Somehow functioning will happen without the I being invested in it. Q: I have a friend who went through some sort of awakening that they said that at work, sometimes they say something, and it just comes out, they can't even control it. Oh my God, what did I say? So that may happen. J: Absolutely. And the one that says woops, what did I say there? That's already back into the I now, that's the I story. So even stop that. Say that's fine. It's just noticed – by what? – an ego who likes or doesn't like it and wants to judge it. So don't even turn that on. Stay out there. So that there's just talking all the time and you haven't a clue what you're saying. Like what's happening here all the time! Do you know? Talking just happens, the functioning just happens. You don't know if it makes sense or not. There's a complete letting go, it's a total letting go. Q: What if that happened, like with husband and wife. Do you know who to sleep with? (laughter) Q: That's a thought, you know. J: Yeah, life will continue just normally. Your body will know what bed to go into. It'll be the one you were in the night before. Q: Anyway, so be in that space, in the space of the next thought. I attempt to try that and it feels like waiting for something, but there's nothing there to be waiting for. Is that the right place? J: Yes, and go even deeper still. Because if there's somebody who feels like they're waiting, you've already gone into an I story about it. So point mind back again. OK, the source of the next thought. And the next thought might be, oh I feel like I'm waiting. That's the next thought . Q: I tried that and it feels like dumb or stupid or something, like not knowing. It's like no perception. J: Yes, no perception. But this isn't good or bad or dumb or intelligent, nothing. Q: To describe it, you feel like that. Not knowing at all. J: That's right cuz mind can't go there. There's no intellectual knowing. No knowing in the way we understand knowing. Q: It's like sleeping but it's not. There's not much there to be… J: To be aware of. Nothing's happening there at all. It's like deep sleep but the body's awake. Q: Yes, it's close to falling asleep, isn't it? It feels like that. Very easy to fall asleep there. J: Yeah, that's the mind saying hey, I don't want to do this, let's just have sleep instead. Q: No it's not even that, it just seems like it. It feels like no perception. J: No there's nothing going on. Absolutely nothing there. Q: OK. So I was in the right place then. J: But there's no I there that's in the right place. Q: Yes, there's no I. Just feels like in a dark room of some sort. J: Then that's a thought that comes in that's trying to describe it. So drop that too. Q: I want to ask you…..at work there's a sense of struggle with a task, there's a sense of urgency to get it done and I'm like, done for what? Just to get it over with. But when I do the task, I don't have that focus or enjoyment. There's something churning, trying to get it out of the way quickly, you know? J: Is it a type of anxiety you're describing? Q: There's a sense of anxiety in there. I used to want to have a lot of time. I realize I consciously know that. I want to have time. In the past, I'm thinking of this or that, right? But now, I don't even do that – I have nothing to do really but there's tasks I need to do at work and a sense of churning, quickly, quickly. So it makes it very stressful and very struggling. A sense of I want to go home and it's really urgent. I couldn't control it… J: You can't control it. Q: It just comes. I realize it's in the background. I guess I prefer to do something else, you know, but I can't. I have to do it now. J: Do you take your work very seriously then? Q: I'd have to say that work attitude has improved a lot. In the past, 5-10 years ago, it was like a burden, something you have to do. But since I embarked on this path 10 years ago, I have to say that it improved greatly, the attitude toward work. Relationships with coworkers, with bosses, attitude really improved, but there's a sense of trap, being trapped. So there's a part of me that feels like a fish in the net. I couldn't do much about it. J: It's just a thought that you are trapped and you've believed it into your experience and then you're responding as if it's real, because you've believed it into your experience. That you're trapped or that you're obliged to do this and you're stuck and you have to do this and you can't get out and you want to have more time or whatever. Whatever the conditions are that make you feel trapped. But the belief that you are trapped is the problem here. It doesn't matter what you're doing. Q: I find myself at times that I have to stay late to do work and I'm like, OK, that's what happened. But everyday always that urge to get off work. J: So that thought comes and you get into it. The second that you see you're in that thought, that's the door opening. The second that you realize here I am again, and that's the struggle, and it's like, "I'm not trapped; there isn't even an I who can be trapped." "This is just the idea of being trapped running through this form". That's all it is. Q: Is it possible that because I want to do other activities, tasks, not at work but you know, …. J: It will come up again – it's not the task. It's never about the task. Because if you go into a job that you really enjoy, this feeling of being trapped will come up again. It will come up again. You'll be in the wrong country, or you'll be trapped by a physical ailment, you'll hurt your back for example, and you're like "I'm trapped by my bad body". Oh man, the idea of being trapped will just shift from one thing to another until you go after it. "I am trapped by ___" and mind will present anything. If that one grabs you, it will keep repeating. "I am trapped by ___" the job, the task, the day doesn't go fast enough, whatever, not having enough time. It will keep presenting stuff so changing your job won't drop the thought, that experience will continue. Until you see that being trapped is only a thought. It doesn't matter if you've loads of free time and you're in a cave in the Himalayas and you're back to nature and living this idyllic life, for example. You'll be trapped by the fact that – blah, blah – the weather and you've no constant income coming in, and this is wrong and mosquitoes are trapping you, and man, it can just go from subject to subject. The place has nothing to do with it. These are just thoughts and we attach the outside world to the thought, imagining that it has some power over us and it doesn't, it doesn't. Q: What you said about believing a thought….last week I was with my son at a store and I was buying an ice cream and my son said "well Dad, you have all that, I'm not going to eat any". I bought it anyway and I realized that's a thought that crossed my mind that this would be nice to share ice cream with my son, even though he said, no you have it by yourself. I still wanted it. I realized I bought the thought so the ice cream wasn't tasty anymore. I realized the impact of buying into a thought. Ice cream was really tasty was just an idea believed but I'm like, I'm eating the impact of that. J: That's exactly it. Nice to see that. Everything is the same unless there's a thought around it. Everything's totally the same. It doesn't matter what you work as, everything is the same, whatever the body is doing. There's nothing that makes any difference whether you're eating ice cream or eating raw cabbage, it's the same. But a thought will run that this is nicer than that – you can either believe it or not, you know? It doesn't matter. The thoughts will come and the thoughts will go but if you believe it, you'll suffer. Q: This is just for curiosity of the mind. You said that creation itself, everything is a thought, has no reality. J: Yes. Q: But what about Christ, what about Buddha? Why were they born? You said life has no meaning. What can you say about that? J: About Buddha and Christ? It's like anybody else. It's just part of the happening, it's like cherry blossoms and Hitler. I mean it's all just the movement of what people call beneficial to the earth or not beneficial to the earth… Q: Or beneficial to humanity…so we're just part of the happening. J: It's all just part of the one movement. Mind will say some of it is good and mind will say some of it is bad. They murdered Jesus and other people say he's fantastic. And so duality is there all the time. No one part of it needs to stand out; what about that? Well, what about this carpet? I mean, why pick Jesus or Buddha? It's all the same, it's all just the movement. Mind will say one thing is more important or more significant. It's only significant if the world needs to be helped, if there is a thought believed. Then significance comes in. Q: Because we put a value there. J: Yes. Separation must exist for significance to be valid. Separation must exist. Because if one thing is significant, then something else must exist that is insignificant because you must have contrast to have significance. So take away duality and nothing has any significance. The Buddha and Jack the Ripper. Q: We pick out individuals and say that's significant, born to humanity. J: And as soon as you're saying that, we've got separation running, now we're gonna have a value judgment on it cuz that's what separation does. Ice cream good, ice cream bad. Significant, not significant. What job I'm in. Same line of thought running here. Q: Thank you. J: No problem, OK. Anybody having a really hard time? Q: I related to somebody who was talking about the fact that they go between 2 different worlds or 2 different experiences often, cuz I seem to do that myself. I seem to be at a point where I don't feel like I am here. If someone was to ask me who I am, I couldn't tell them. I wouldn't know who they were talking about. And with that there comes a fear that there's something wrong with me, that I feel like that there's nobody here, how can I be reacting? I understand what you're talking about, about the fact that when you speak it just comes from inside and it just flows out. And I can do that when I teach some things. When I'm teaching, it just flows and comes out very easily. But at the same time there's also this fear that there's something wrong, that I don't quite understand what's going on, because I feel like I'm observing a lot but I'm not feeling like I'm very present in my life. So I don't quite understand that. When I'm in that observing mode, or in that unbounded state, I feel very peaceful, usually there's a lot of peace there, and then the duality of being at work and feeling a lot of fear that comes up is still very prevalent. So I don't know exactly what I'm asking. I'm a little bit confused about the observer mode, the observing mode….like I feel very vacant. That I'm not really present. Is that normal or not? J: Yes. I'm wondering something. Was there a time in your life when somebody asked you who you are, that you did feel that there was something whole and complete that could respond? Or has it always been, what really are they asking? Q: It feels like that's growing more, who are they asking that of is growing more. Probably when I was younger, there probably was a time when I was more connected to my small self. J: OK. Before the I breaks down with all of this work, for almost everybody it has to be whole first. Q: Right. I think that was missing. J: I think that's what's missing too. There's something there that's not complete. Completely solid in order for it to break down. Q: My sister used to complain a lot about me, saying you're not present. So how do you get that present before it goes away? J: The I, unless it has the experiences it needs to have – something doesn't want to deny this movie, you know? Let it have its play cuz there's no harm in it, there's a time for everything. And very often, self-realization doesn't happen unless there's that feeling of – you know what, it's done, it's complete. There's nothing more. And I don't get that feeling from you. It's like some richness is missing. Q: Right. J: And that hunger is actually more important. It's something beautiful and gentle and tender wants to be experienced and hey, let's give it an experience, let it be had, let it be had. Q: So maybe not coming to satsang as much… J: Satsang is fine, but put joy in your life. Q: How do you just put joy in your life? J: What makes you happy? Q: Coming to satsang. J: OK. What else? Q: Nature, being out in nature. J: Do you like to dance? Q: Yes, I do. J: Then dance, everyday as your meditation. If you put on music that you love for 20 minutes everyday, that is the best spiritual practice you can do. Q: Beautiful. J: It's the best thing you can do. To just enjoy the experience of being in a body. And feel the richness of it and the beauty of it. And with that, splendor has spun its high peak – everything else will start clicking into place. Because at some point, it won't be enough, do you know? But it needs to be had first. Dance everyday. Q: OK. Thank you. Q: So while I was sitting here, I was trying to observe without getting involved. What I noticed was that I kind of know the right thing is like to just observe without identifying with what's being observed. But there's a part that's saying, oh I see Jac, oh I hear what whoever's sitting here is saying. Or like, when someone first sits down, there's this anticipation, oh I want to hear what they're going to say. Then I stop myself, I go, no just let it be and just see what happens. So…I don't know, is that kind of a part of observing without the I getting involved? J: Can that running commentary be happening in consciousness? Mind loves to be busy, it's gonna run some old garbage, you know? It's always running something, it's like a radio you just can't turn off. So maybe the thoughts are, oh I see this, I see that, it's like attention is watching this. If it's, oh my God, I'm having those thoughts oh no, you'll go nuts, you know? So if mind is doing that, know where your attention is. And it can be 5% listening to the running commentary but it's like, yeah, there's always going to be a running commentary – take no notice. So pull back behind as much as you can. The running commentary can still be there. It's alright. The running commentary is fine. The trick is to let mind do its thing and not be interested in it. That's the trick. Q: So the mind is doing its thing and something is aware of that. Something other than mind is aware of that. J: Well, mind is aware of it cuz mind is observer. Q: Ohhhhh….I thought observer was something other than mind. See I thought there was something watching the mind. J: Only the mind can watch the mind. Because as long as there's something to observe, we've got two, we've got duality. We've got something watching something. Sure, it must be in the realm of mind. So then, mind is observer. It's a stepping stone, you know? Q: In self-inquiry, sometimes I would ask, who's observing? So that's still mind. J: That's asking it? Yes. Q: That's asking it and whatever it is I'm looking for, the who is still mind, the subject, I guess. J: Yes. Q: OK. There's another thing that I just don't deal with because it doesn't make any sense, but I see you, I hear you, I can touch you, there's something – but you're saying that mind created all of what I'm experiencing. J: There's an appearance. There's that much. There's an appearance. Can you touch something in a dream, a nighttime regular dream? Q: Well… J: You can touch somebody, no? You're dreaming that you touch somebody. Q: It's not the same though. J: Well how do you know when you're dreaming? You only know when you wake up. Q: I think I kind of know I'm dreaming when I'm dreaming. J: All the time? Q: I don't remember. I'd have to go back into the dream and see. When I'm dreaming there's a feeling like that I'm making something up. J: You're making something up now. It's just not seen yet. Q: OK. So there's something that will, I'm going to use the word know, that's going to know the difference between an appearance and that it's just something made up and not real? J: The appearance is made up and not real. This, you, me, sitting here in a room, this is an appearance. It just appears to be happening. It's very convincing. And you can say, is this happening, is this happening? And everybody says, of course it's happening. Q: There's always people here. It's very real. J: And nighttime dream is a dream within a dream and this for sure is being dreamt. For sure. But the only place that I know that it can be seen is when attention is pointed towards that vacant space, that emptiness thing that we can't really name. Somehow when energy isn't back in the movie, the mind story, somehow something opens and shows itself to be the dream. There's a knowing of like, oh my God, that's how it works. It was just an appearance, it never happened, we can say there was the belief in linear time and there was the belief that an I existed, which was just the result of a whole series of beliefs on top of each other. And the I took it to be real. And somehow the appearance is never plausible again, ever. It's just known that it's an appearance. There's a lightness in it because there's nothing happening, it's only an appearance. Then you know that you're dreaming, that you're making something up as you go along. But even that thought isn't there because it's not even real enough for that. There isn't even an I who's making it up, it's just energy moving and mind comes in and labels it and imagines there's this and that, chairs and tables and microphones, and look at all these labels. And then somehow they're believed, the labels are believed and so we've got subjects and objects. It's just a whole layer and layer and layer of concepts, and they're so thick, that it's believed. Q: So what's the difference if energy is moving, what's the difference between labeling it and knowing it's just energy moving – that's still an identification though. J: It is of course, but the idea of energy, when there's only the one label – that it's just energy – we lose all the dense dualistic things of good and bad, and I like and I dislike, and there's this and that – all the separation part is gone. Saying that it's all energy is just modern language on the oneness concept , that it's all just one. But even that goes, even that goes. It must cuz it's a concept too. But it appears like it's all one, or it appears like it's all energy. Q: I don't think I have any! (laughter) Thank you – it feels OK. It feels better than before. J: OK, that's good. Q: I'm not so sure where I'm going with this, so this is just gonna come out as it comes out. What I find bubbling up is fear and I don't know whether it was after the month-long retreat that that was when I first noticed this little….and I thought, wow, of course it was first excitement and then there was this other little thing, whoa, what is that? That's fear. And then when the person was talking about being in the space and everything was great for how many months it was and she came home and everything caved in. That's when I felt the same thing, like I went into that and I thought, well you know, I'm afraid I'm not worthy, I'm afraid I'm not going to be strong enough to deal with all my children dying and my grandchildren and my house burning down and my husband disappearing – I mean, my mind was just going, what are these fears? Well you're not there, there is no I. But yeah, are you going to be strong enough in that belief, that concept? Cuz basically, it is still a concept that I can go in and be not there. But then things like this… J: But who would be going in and being not there? Q: My mind still says that to myself and I was saying that in my seat before I got up where I was going around in that circle, so I played that with myself. But there's still a fear of when that real disaster…it's a lot easier to sit when things are going well, but I've had loss of everything and it's just devastating. And it's hard to…it doesn't exist….I do know that. But will I be able to remember that? So silly. J: No, let's just sit for a minute. If something is silly, then the whole creation is silly, OK? We can't have a part of it being silly cuz…(laughter). You see, I doesn't exist. Then it doesn't have to worry about anything else, because it can't worry because there's nothing there to worry. Q: I was in that loop. J: So what is it that would be worried? Can worry just be a happening that's just passing through? Q: I hope so. J: The I hopes? Q: Yeah. The I hopes, I know. (laughter) J: OK, let's say worry just passes through, fear passes through. And in its passing through, it catches you right here. It's like, oops there we go, and it's passing through. All of that can happen without it happening to you. So the tag-on that this is my experience and for this feeling to be happening, there must be an I who's having it – that tag-on can dissolve. And everything else can just manifest as it is. But the tag-on says, I don't like disaster, I don't like, I don't like. That's the I part. All the happenings, all the emotions – everything can happen just the same, but something doesn't really care a whole lot. Because sure, it's grand, whatever happens is grand. And mind delivers that sentence when there's no I. It's all fine. There is no contrast. Q: I know that, I have experienced that, but what keeps cropping up is, when the time comes, will I be able to not be I? J: You've set up an expectation for yourself then, have you? Q: Yeah. J: OK drop the expectation. Q: In other words, just let it go. J: Let nothing happen girl. If nothing happens, it's totally the idea. Because something can only happen to an I. Q: Yeah. I think I got what I'm reading in between the lines, that I'm hearing myself, is let worry go now. You'll deal with what you need to deal with when the time comes and you will have the tools, for a lack of a better term. J: You will or you won't. Q: You will or you won't. J: And it can be fine either way. Q: Right, right. J: Disaster is part of the flow too, it's OK. Q: I know. J: It's fine. But being OK about whatever happens, whether it's disastrous or not disastrous. Be OK with it all. You can practice that if you want, to give mind something to do, you can practice that. And the I practices being indifferent about everything. It's actually quite valuable because it's not so sticky. It doesn't run a desire, it runs an idea, it's like an anchor thought, it's like a mantra. It's like, it's OK, whatever happens here, I'm gonna be OK with it. May it be how it is, may it be how it is. That's a mantra. May it be how it is. And that stops the desire. It's still mind but at least you're anchored a little bit outside of the "oh my God" story. Do you see? Q: I do see. J: So may it be how it is. If it's disastrous or not disastrous, may it be how it is. But no attachment to getting it right, to anything – forget all that stuff, it's gonna headwreck you. Q: It was the mantra that you were talking about that is the state that I want – that was what I needed right there. The rest of the stuff…we'll see what happens. J: Absolutely. And sure, it is fine either way. It's nothing anyway, it's all nothing. Really creation is all nothing, and not to devalue it. The whole thing has the value that it is whatever it is. Whatever value can be attributed to anything, fine, that's part of the play too. But really, it's nothing, you know? It's nothing. Why even take it seriously? It's light, you know, it's just light. You miss a plane, you break your leg, some awful things happen and somebody dies that feels like losing a part of your body, let it be OK. Let grief pass through, let pain pass through. It'll move right on and something else will manifest and that's just the movie. It's kind of got a same-same about it, you know? Q: I mean, I know, that's comfortable for me. I know that. It's just I was surprised at the fear that bubbled up. It's like well OK, the universe is gonna test you. J: Yeah, yeah. Q: That is what was generated for me. J: Maybe, maybe not. It always runs like that, huh? Q: We shall see. J: We shall see, yeah. May it be how it is. Q: Yeah. Q: I just have a quick question, hi. I just wondered if you had any thoughts on why we're here? J: Are we here? Q: Well... (laughter) J: I mean really, I'm not being smart-like. Are we here, are we really here? What's here? Q: Why we're pretending to be here? Why we're playing this game, why we're in this dream, why people have to, you know… J: Why do you dream at night? Q: I was just wondering if you had any thoughts on it. I mean, do we have a job to do? Are we supposed to, I mean, is there any reason for it? J: No. No there's no reason, there's no purpose, it's not going anywhere. It's not, there's nothing wrong with it, you see? Unless mind says, ooh I've got to fix it and save the planet. That'll happen, of course that'll happen because something moves toward goodness, something moves towards love. Q: That's what when you said you could be Jack the Ripper or Buddha, it's like, OK but you're not gonna be Jack the Ripper. J: No. Q: So there's a progression. J: Is there? For every Buddha there's a Jack the Ripper. It balances out. This is duality. A Buddha is born, a Jack the Ripper is born. There's no reason for it. It's just an appearance. And if you inquire deep enough into it you'll see that it didn't happen at all, and that's the killer. Q: If you see it didn't happen, it can be pretty painful. J: Absolutely. That's the paradox. Q: Seems like there should be a reason for it. J: Yeah, cuz mind wants reasons for things, that's just one of the functionings of mind. Why is it raining? Because…blah, blah. That's one of the functionings of mind. But for this, there is no reason because we're coming out of where mind is... Q: Cosmic joke? J: Yeah, they call it cosmic joke, yeah. There's no reason, it's not going anywhere. Q: There's no reason to be a good person or a, you know…. J: Really there isn't but you won't be able to be a bad person once you start waking up. You just won't be able. It just will not happen. Q: I just wondered about what you felt. Thank you. J: Yeah, mind doesn't like this perspective, I suppose. Mind doesn't like it, you know, because at some point, we go to where it's not really knowable intellectually, knowable as a piece of knowledge, do you see? But something in there is still and aware and outside of all of this appearance. Something inside is not involved in all of this. Q: Right, and I think somewhere inside, there is a reason. When I go inside and feel that space, it doesn't feel like it's meaningless. But maybe that's a contrived thought, but … J: OK, but for something to have meaning it must have meaning for an I. Q: Right, so I guess it's contrived. J: It is contrived. So of course the I will say that it's perfect, but another time equally the I will say, oh my God, my own destruction? Forget it. And resistance will come up. We flip all the time between it being wonderful and it being hell. That's just the movie. Throw it all out. Do you see? You can't keep a bit of this story, you can't keep a bit of the appearance, you can't keep a bit of it and try to patch it into something else. That's gone. That's gone. That's all those seminars and courses about manifesting and oneness and whatever else they're doing these days. That's about taking little bits of concepts and making them fit into my life. It's like, OK, after all that now, when you can see through everything and you can see that it's all just concepts, concepts, concepts based on me getting an advantage for myself. Me even getting enlightenment – even that is too much. Q: I still go back to the fact that I see a progression and I see that you wouldn't be out there murdering somebody and perhaps you've experienced something and learned something and gotten somewhere. Or maybe not. J: OK. But there's a progression in the same way as there's a progression from an apple blossom to an apple. And the apple will fall off and we start again and we start again and we start again. Q: Do we? J: If there's an I, but there's no I so… Q: But there's energy. We don't need to go there, but… J: So within the subject-object of good and bad, there's a progression. Wider than that perspective, there isn't. There's progression if there's something to progress from and someplace to go to. Of course there is because that's how it works, that's the duality framework. Now outside of that, what would be progressing to what? Leaving what state, going to what, what's better than what? Q: But then why? J: Why not? Do you know there's no why. You see? Q: It's a pain in the ass. J: It's a pain in the ass while the I is there and that's why... Q: So the reason is to get out of the I. J: At this point, yeah. When you see that heck, it's all about suffering. The good times are just too short and they're just not plausible anymore and it's all about suffering, no matter what way I look at it. And if that dawns, you bet you're heading for the end of the line. The I is dying. Q: No, I've had a lot of drama. I'm where there's not a lot of drama now, but it just still is like why did I, why? You know, why? But that's OK. J: At some point, there is no reason. Q: Thank you. J: OK. Time for one more, maybe? Q: I guess it's sort of following up on the last person. It seems like the idea that there's no reason for anything – that's a concept as well. J: Yes. Q: So there very well could be a reason for things, it's just that if we follow the intuition, the beam that you're describing, it could be leading to something that's not a concept, you know? Does that make sense? J: What could be leading to not a concept? Q: I mean, whatever's awakening to our true nature could be part of a process. J: Yes. Q: And the idea that it's not part of something is just another concept as well. J: But it's a part of something like an apple is coming from a blossom. Within duality, yes, it's a process, there is a movement towards the truth. Q: Well, I see where you're coming from, the way you're talking about that. It just seems to me that, let's say you get beyond duality and then you see everything as an appearance that's happening to something, whatever the awareness is that's experiencing everything. It's all happening within the awareness, that I'm waking up to understand that it is me. I'm waking up to understand that I am all of it. But there's definitely an experience that is happening. You know, there's experience happening. J: OK, waking up is about seeing that there's no I. Q: Right. J: So there isn't an I who sees that it's happening or not happening. Q: Well, I'm not talking about the I, I'm talking about which wakes up and realizes it's everything. J: But it actually knows that it's nothing. Q: But it's nothing and it's everything. J: Yes, it's nothing and it's everything but the everything is only an appearance. Q: But the appearance is an experience that is happening. J: No, experiencing needs an individual. Experiencing stops in the subjective way, the normal way of experiencing something, that stops. Because there must be a personal I to experience something. Q: But whatever is occurring, once the I drops away, there's still experience happening. J: For whom, for what? Q: For whomever the I has dropped way, there's still …experience doesn't stop though. J: It does. Q: You're saying when the I drops away, experience... J: Who can experience something? What is there experiencing any happening? An experience needs somebody to have an experience, and there's a time before it and a time after it, and it must be compared in some way. You know, there's a beginning and an end, it's an event, no? Experiencing. Like it needs somebody to have all that registering with the before the experience and the after. Q: It don't think it needs somebody it just needs awareness, right? J: Awareness doesn't know anything about this. Like if you mean pure awareness, it doesn't know anything about this. It's not having an experience. Q: Pure awareness not having an experience…but it seems like – OK you're saying that the mind is experiencing everything, pretty much. J: Experiencing is just a concept that's believed. That's the effect of believing a concept – experience. Q: So what is life? What is life then? J: Movement of energy maybe? Q: But look, life happens. J: Sure it does. It keeps on happening, you can't stop that one. It's just a vital force in the appearance that just keeps on moving. Q: Alright, well I guess I can see that which would lead to what our true nature is, which is that which realizes that. I mean, they talk about that being when you let go of all concepts and just rest in that place and something's gonna happen then you'll, um, I mean I don't really understand that part of it because I haven't done that fully. I guess I don't know how to come to this without some kind of conceptual… J: Of course, of course… Q: …framework. And other teachers…I don't know, what you're saying seems like it could still be true within a larger context which I don't know what that larger context would be. J: Alright. You're dead right, as long as I'm using language. You're dead right. Because language, already something is lost, do you know? Already we've gone into a framework because we're using language. Q: So there's no way of knowing or going beyond this point, really, with language. J: With language and with the faculty that can experience. Because that's a part of the I. Q: Experiencing ideas. J: Absolutely. But something knows. We've gone beyond the limit of experience, but something knows it. And when the concept stops, it's just sitting there, it's the only thing that's there. Q: OK. That makes sense. J: OK, great. Q: Thanks. J: It's 9:30 and it's really wet. Every satsang is different! I hope you got nothing! (laughter) J: I hope nothing makes sense. I hope you're just gonna drop the whole idea of an I and let's see what happens, huh? You know, life is gonna happen anyway. Thank you for your time. Good night, safe home.  

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  Jac: Is there anybody here who's totally new to satsang ? No ? All veterans ? Okay then. We'll go straight for it. Just drop on the inside, whatever that means for you. Don't think about it. Just drop on the inside and let it be okay to have nothing going on. Mind will grab a thought - oh it's boring, something should be happening, I should be saying something, I should be someplace, I forgot to make a phone call. It's all bonkum. Including anything I can say now. Do you use the work bonkum ? No ? Okay, rubbish. Because it's already too late. The moment that a mouth is open there is a concept and the chances are something is investing in the concept, something is believing in it, bingo we're out in the world, out in me, my, mine and pain will follow. Is it okay for there to be nothing happening ? Because liberation seems to have been set up in a context that our Western mind is used to - It's a goal, it's a target. There will be brownie points when I get there. Let's blow up the bubble because the show is over. It's not another way of living or experiencing or it's not another state. It's just what you are. And everything else is seen to have been nothing anyway. What you thought you were wasn't real anyway. So it's more that the show is over. But there seems to be this movie called creation still going on a bit. But you're not really caught in it cause it's not about you, you were never in it. So is it really okay to have the show over ? If the question arises feel free to ask. Silence is fine too. At some point the questions will stop. They haven't started yet but they mightn't start and that's okay too. But at some point the questions will stop in whatever you feel is your mind. And it's not that you come to the end of all the answers that are possible. It's just that questions are seen as more distraction. A prolonging of that belief that there is something to fix, something to work out, something to analyze, something to put to bed someplace. Not so. Seeing that it's all just futile and just running round and round about. That's about as clear as it's going to get. Whatever might be yet to let go of, yet to be healed, yet to get closure on - you don't need closure on anything. Nothing needs to be healed, nothing needs to be resolved. Nothing. No passions or habits need to be broken. It's just mind giving you something else that you might have believed to be true in order to keep the show going. It's a great trick. And while you hear this you might think –I don't really want it so and that's what stops liberation, that's what keeps it out there. You think you want it, but you don't. One wants the show to continue. To experiencing the highs and lows except when pain comes and then you want out but you can't pick and choose. The idea of who you think you are is still running or it's not. There's not a designer option. What you really are is never involved in creation anyway and doesn't know a thing about it because there are not two. There isn't what you are and the created world. There isn't even one actually. One is one too many too. One is one too many. So now we're left with nothing again. Q: I have a question. How long have you been in your awakened state ? When did it pop ? Jac: A year after the final pop there was a lot of integration going on so there was an inability to function in the world for about a year. Yes, there was some kind of realigning that was going on for about a year. So that integration year was last August. Finished last August. Q: Does it continue ? Jac: No it doesn't. All is seen as the movie. No thought is believed to be the truth. No experience is mine. It's all passing through consciousness. There are no individuals either in this body or in that body. There are no individuals. It is a thought passing thru consciousness. There does not seem to be the truth so they are not owned because there is no me to own the thoughts. So there is a sense of something being all over. And what changes will always change. But what is, that's where attention rests. There is nothing going on, not even the idea that it's boring because then you are believing that it's boring and then your thoughts will manifest the experience that something is boring. So if mind doesn't engage in the thought that something is boring, how can it be boring ? There are no thoughts. So when words come through it's kind of like energetically they pass thru the back of my head and come out my mouth. It's a bit like that. It's like something is passing thru but attention is thru a trap door into an abyss. Q: Does that mean that you have no anxiety whatsoever ? Jac: Not in the same way. If I thought I was going to miss a flight or something that has consequences. It's more like a smell, like something passing, like the wind. There might be like a whissssh of like "whoops missed the flight. There might be consequences here." But it's gone before it's caught and it's never my feeling. And less and less it's even noticed what's passing. That's getting less. There is kind of an indifference to what's passing because it's all garbage. It's just all the same, it's all rubbish. There is a sameness about creation. It's all just energy moving. If there is no you involved in the planet there is no your family, your work , your life then it might be kind of boring. It's just passing by and it's beautiful. Whatever is passing by is beautiful whatever it is, it's beautiful. But it's not beautiful in the way that something that's seen is beautiful by something that has decided that it's beautiful. It's more that where attention rests there's some kind of beauty - there is something joyous or beautiful arising from it. And that tends to be the closest to experiencing. So then whatever is seen it's almost like an application of beauty on top of it. Do you know ? Does that make sense ? Sort of ? I don't think I've ever explained that before. It's like what is arising is beauty. It's not like "That's beautiful we'll use this criteria to say beautiful, ugly – this goes into the beautiful box." It's not like that. Arising from the stillness is creation and it goes back into the stillness and the stillness is exquisite. It doesn't lose anything in its manifestation. There are thoughts that something is not nice and painful and whatever and they kick in, if one wants to have them I guess. So if they are not there, there is only what is, manifesting beautifully and returning to source beautifully. Do you know ? There is only God or nothing or whatever you want to call it. Intimacy, Vastness – it's all the same. It's very simple, you know. Q: Did it come instantly ? Was it progressive ? Jac: No. Years of therapy. Anything I could find to shift the conditioning. Q: But one day... Jac: There was a lot of unfolding and there were 3 bid incidences. The first with the help of Saint Daime – a plant medicine – in Ireland actually. So whatever you are drawn to, whatever makes sense – go for it. But kicking back and doing nothing, well nothing will probably shift, you know. While you still believe you exist then do something. You might as well do something. Try everything. Become the driver of your own bus. Do what makes sense to you. Don't be scared to try something new or try that out and leave it when it's not working for you. Keep moving because it kind of spins out. You arrive at the knowing that mind is going to create more stories and issues anyway. So it's really nowhere. And that then came to the end of the healing thing. Because mind ultimately wants a story that's all about me and nothing like being screwed up is as much about me. It's just the all about me syndrome. It's fine. Q: Someone mentioned coming here that you have a connection to Ramana Maharshi and Nisargatta. Jac: Yes, Ramana Maharshi for sure. I followed a Master for a while who lives in Spain and for sure he sent me to Ramana Maharshi. Q: Did you go to Tiruvanamalai ? Jac: Yes, that's where I spend most of my time now for the last 3 years. Have you been ? Q: No. Many times in my heart, but not in this life at least. But in the stillness and I honor that place of bhakti and ? They're very intertwined. Jac: And I suppose looking at my own path, bhakti - devotion was definitely a strong part of it. There was definitely a surrendering to That which knew more. That's all I had for a long time, you know ? Q: Emptying yourself into That so there is no more you. And then the  ? arose. I wouldn't say there is an awakening but then there is silence and stillness because there is no more you. You see that everything you are is just synapses firing and thoughts that say you were born in this place on the planet with a line on it. And you see that you are none of that, but you still carry on the show. With the family – with Mom you say "hi" every Sunday but you know that you are not That. Jac: But are some thoughts believed ? Q: Not many. I keep my life very quiet still way out in the country here. No. I watch them come up. I was with a couple of teachers for 15-20 years. It's the Bhakti that disappeared. I did a lot of exercises to disappear the program "You know you're not the mind or the thoughts". You watch it all go by and eventually one day there is no more you. And then there is the stillness and then less. And even that doesn't carry anything any more. Jac: Yes. Q: Shiva comes up a lot and there's always Krishna. Jac: Comes up for whom ? Q: It just comes up. I'm just doing my daily thing and somebody says oh there's an Amnami ma ashram on the Big Island. And I go there and there are all kinds of Shiva  ? Ramanana Maharashi pictures are by her pictures. So Shiva is coming up. It's just coming up on the screen as I walk thru the dream state. But it's just coming up and I watch it. And here's my friend Shiva and he invited me here tonight. So Shiva is coming up and my good friend is Shiva. Not from me. The more I focus on Tiruvanamali, Googleearth it and circumnavigate it on Googleearth. Shiva is coming up. Jac: But I would question "Whom is it noticed by that Shiva is coming up ?" Because if the noticing is still continuing there is a personal "I". Q: There are remnants. So what do you do with that ? Nothing. Just watch it, right ? And you see it if there is an "I" that it's all coming up for because there are remnants. So I keep myself quiet and do my little job and come back home and meditate, read a little scripture and have some port. Jac: So what about if you were thrown into a chaotic scenario ? Q: Oh, I work 40 hours a week with an autistic violent male and he recognizes my heart and his heart and I've had to take him down by his throat to the ground and stay still and let him know that I love him. And he comes back and is so grateful that I don't see a violent autistic male there. That I just see Beingness. But it's not me seeing it you know. Beingness is seeing Beingness. And that's the reason we are drawn together. It's something he chose and I chose. That Beingness is arising in that heart connection. And as I see this whole non-dual stuff awakening and consciousness is waking up. More so than before right ? Jac: I don't know. We have the technology so that people who have woken up can be known so that the word spreads. But maybe it's always been in the numbers like that. Who knows ? Q: There are a certain number of perfect masters on the planet at any given time they say, but who knows ? Jac: I don't buy any of that stuff. Q:  ?Anama ma ? says that there is something to it but I wouldn't set it as a given. Jac: Okay but there is nothing to any of it. There isn't. It's all equally useful or useless. All of it. Q: Eventually it all is. So why is it all there ? Jac: It's not there at all. Really it's not there at all. I'm not here at all. Q: So why do we come together like this ? Jac: Did we ? There is just energy moving thru form. Q: Right. We might as well be sitting in silence ? Jac: Oh yes, totally. Other: It's always silence. Jac: Yes. That's right. But there seems to be some draw towards mind getting something or mind surrendering to it. There's that pull. There's a movement. The energy moving thru form is moving in a direction and it keeps coming out and goes back and comes out and goes back you know. Other: (inaudible) Jac: Nothing matters at all and so in that stillness it is known that this is only an appearance that it actually never happened, it's understood, it's clear that this never happened. That there is just a string of thoughts running together believing it into existence. It's very plausible but actually it never happened at all. So there is no why to it. There is no purpose. Q: It's hard to believe when you think in the visual (inaudible) Jac: Yes, what I just said doesn't sit comfortably for a personal "I". Q: What you said earlier about the show being over – what I became aware of immediately was a response in myself that it didn't feel good to me. It's not quite fear but it's something in that territory and I was immediately aware of that response. Not wanting that to be so. Whatever story I had about what that meant, not wanting that to be so. I'm just sharing that. Jac: Yes. That's the thing. That's why liberation doesn't happen. The ego doesn't want it to be over and while that's still in charge liberation can't happen. Q: I just finally got my new paddle board ! Now it's got to be over ? I just finally got my board ! Lousy timing. (laughter) Jac: So let's say you die tonight in your sleep. What happens to your paddleboard ? Q: She'll use it. (laughter) Jac: And it will go on. And it'll be fine and you probably wouldn't care if you died tonight in your sleep. And the paddleboard wouldn't feature. It's just seen like I have great fun when I... You know ? Right here, now you're not on your paddle board, but the idea is running that there is fun to be had from it. It's just an idea. It's only an idea. It's all just ideas. There is nothing more tangible than an idea. It's amazing and the idea gives pleasure. Just the idea itself gives pleasure. Q: I see that but where the consciousness rests, I think you were using that term, doesn't always feel restful. Sometimes where I'm looking out from doesn't feel restful. Jac: Okay, okay. Then mind is playing tricks. Where you're looking from is a state of minor anxiety for example... a bit of unrest. That's a state. And it's quite likely that mind is running a few thoughts – oh I can't get it or this should be better or why is it like this ? I don't like this. All it is is that it's not that the place that you're looking from is not completely restful, it's that there is a thought that it's not restful and you're buying the thought. Do you see ? That's what it is. Because where you look from is the nothingness - it's what you are. But if it feels like no, no when I drop inside it's not at rest - you are just running the thought that it's not at rest. You just replaced one thought with another thought. The next thought is running. So in something like that using a mantra, using a word, focusing on the breath - giving the mind something deliberate to think about instead of mind finding a thought because it's the nature of mind to be busy. So getting the mind used to focusing on one thing is very useful because it stops the distraction of the outside world. Makes it all honed down a bit. So in something like that it's very useful to focus on something you give the mind to do. It's a controlling initiative but it works. It's not where you're looking from if there is no rest there. It's a thought. -Distractions- Q: Do you ever dream at night ? Jac: Very rarely. Maybe once in 3 months and I used to be a vivid dreamer. If there is a dream it's very grey. It's very faint but what happens is I see myself sleeping, you know, there is something watching myself asleep. And the very rare night that there is a dream there is something watching the body having a dream. Q: What is that something ? Jac: Consciousness, I guess ? A layer of consciousness. Q: Which would be yourself ? Jac: No. What I am is not involved in the movie. What you are is not involved in the movie. Q: Is your consciousness the movie then ? Jac: The movie happens within consciousness. As long as there is a physical form there is the appearance of this movie happening. Q: Seemingly. Jac: So there is an appearance of the movie happening in consciousness and even if the movie is this body asleep, that is the appearance. Q: Right. The reason I asked the question is that Ramana Maharshi and Nisargadatta use "consciousness" differently. Or the interpretation in English is different and Nisargadatta says that there is no consciousness directly. Meaning that consciousness would be like a concert of the personalized diva shakti or the female application would be the Creation. And in fact there is just the absolute or the self not even god. Nothingness. Nobody. Not even God. Jac: That's right. There is nothing. This never happened. Q: Consciousness watches that you watch consciousness watch and there is still.. Who are you behind... Jac: I'm not involved in this at all because this didn't happen. Q: And you aren't involved but all of us ... none of us are involved in truth, correct ? Jac: We don't exist. More than that. Q: We're not involved. If you're not involved than nobody is ? Is that correct ? Jac: What I am is not involved is different to saying I'm not involved. I'm saying the former, not the latter. Q: Yes, because I means duo, right ? Jac: There is no sense of I'm not involved. Q: So it's not happening for anybody right ? Jac: Absolutely, but it's crazy how the idea that liberation is a pull, that runs through consciousness. That's extraordinary the paradoxes within it. Jac: It's just the ego doing its thing. Know that it's not you. It all unfolds the way it unfolds anyway, huh ? Q: What propels this person to share this ? (hard to hear) Jac: Preferences have mostly stopped running. It applies to if I have a lot of dairy products I tend to get sick. So is there a preference for no dairy ? Well not really, there's a cause and effect. So there is a preference not to be nauseous, sure. But more than that there's no preferences. It tends to be around physical health and I'm not too pushed about that either. So there is no preference to talk as opposed to not talk . There is a movement towards silence. For sure I don't imagine it will be a long time and there will be no talking at all. There will be silent satsang only. It's going that direction. When someone asks me to do something almost always it's a yes. There is a pull and something says yes. Every single step taken is somebody else asking me. There seems to be no capacity to initiate anything. Anything ! It's all response to others. Q: Do you ever watch the word "no" ever come out of your mouth ? Jac: There is no pull to that. That's the closest it would come to a no. It's not like what "no" used to mean. It's not a position, not a stance. It's more a seeing -there's no pull. That seems to be the sentence. Q: Inaudible question about no choice... Jac: But while the doer is still believed to be so, do something. Q: The doer is also part of the pull ? Jac: Yes, it's beautiful. Q: It spins out ? (Inaudible) Jac: But don't be the doer in the hopes that it will spill out. If the pull is there to do something do what you need to do. Then drop the doership. You can get caught in that too. Do what you need to do in order to see. When that's seen then drop the doership. Q: inaudible Jac: Beautiful isn't it ? The tapestry of how it works is exquisite. With no purpose at all. Q: About Jac's seeing charkas, healing...? Jac:  What has stopped is the labeling of what is seen. Like if I'm talking to somebody I can say "Oh the sound of the sea is beautiful" but it wouldn't be labeled. If I'm on my own I would never say that's a beautiful sound. It just doesn't happen. But if I'm with other people yes, sure functioning happens. So the seeing of chakra systems and the doing of healing work, there was a doer who was doing something who wanted to make a difference who was serving.. blah, blah, blah... The whole story was playing. So then everything was labeled as that works, that doesn't work, help them here, advise them there. Without the labeling nothing is seen. Nothing is recognized as being seen. To be honest I don't know if charkas are still seen or not. I'd probably have to sit and look and see. Is there seeing of charkas ? Because no labeling happens, no noticing, no naming of difference because there is no difference in anything. There is nothing separate from anything. So I don't know if they are still seen or not. Things are only seen when mind puts a name on it. Q: I guess they served a purpose at that time.  Jac: It was breaking down the limitations of mind and how it worked and energy made sense. And it was easy. The non physical was easy. I could see it you know ? There is no interest in any of it any more. There's no pull to one thing over another. Q: If nobody asked for anything it's pretty nonfunctioning. Jac: That's right, it's nonfunctioning and I guess there's a preference for that. Because there's a pull towards being low. It's easier. Less physical energy. Just from that perspective, less talking, less movement is easier physically. Q: So your being here and sitting in this chair... it's just happening that way ? Is there some kind of affinity or calling ? I'm curious about what gets you here or is it just energy moving and here you are. Jac: It's that, there's energy moving and that's the very same that made you get out of bed this morning, but the mind will superimpose the idea that you decided to get up. "I got to get up and do such and such." Without that thought "I've got to get up" body still would have moved at exactly the same second with exactly the same gesture and gotten you out of bed. But mind will claim everything for itself. It's amazing – just claim it all. And the belief is that if mind wasn't working like this nothing would happen. Plenty would happen. This body's in Hawaii, how did that happen without any decisions being made ? Q: So it's not a preference to be here, it's simply where you are ? Jac: Yet it lines up with an astrologer once telling me to live in Hawaii. It dawned on me that someone told me that once. But so what ? It didn't motivate something. There was no interest. There was just this pull. There's no investment in the idea. There's no head stuff happening. No planning or scheming in your head...or thinking what it would be like.. bags get packed, things happen and it seems the same. To the outside world it looks the same. But it's just the idea that I'm doing it and taking the steps, that idea burns off and everything happens just the same. Q: Even the idea that I'm not the doer ? Jac: No, that idea is not there. All of it goes. It feels a little bit like when you are on the phone and watching tv. Do you know when you are multi tasking, that women are a little bit better at generally, do you know the way mind can layer ? You can be listening to orders and you can be making tomorrow's whatever. That kind of layering system of mind. It's a little bit like that. For 99% or all of attention there is nothing going on – background is blank - but there is some kind of other layer on top – of the appearance. So it's like talking to your chef and at the same time thinking I have to order toilet paper in the morning. It's all a joke to be enjoyed. And even the awful stuff is to be enjoyed. Q: The joy arises ? But it's not arising to anybody. Jac: It arises from the stillness. And you can connect it to the movie and enjoy the movie and the personal "I" will do that. But that joy is there all the time but you're just sticking it on to the titleboard. Q: And that passes and that passes... and you watch the doer doing and you're not identified with it. And you're not even identified with it. Jac: And not even watching it. But that's kind of the middle ground, watching it. Observing it is the middle ground. To stop the investment in I am, it's all about me and mine. Sure watching it is important, but that too burns out. Q: So this thing called Jackie O'Keeffe is there all the time ? I see glimpses of it throughout the day but not constantly. So you're saying that Jackie O'Keeffe, not you but consciousness through your mouth is saying, that this materialization in front of us is speaking itself all the time even when the play is going on. Jac: Yes, no matter what is happening. Awareness is in the background. It's so simple. It's here all the time. It's that easy. So it's possible. It's so accessible. It's not out there, it's in there. Just drop, let the show be over. Somebody will go "Oh no, Not yet !" Of course there's a "not yet" otherwise you'd be sitting here. Q: How do you walk on water ? Jac: It happens. If a how is needed, then the doer is doing it and it can't be done. Without the how, it happens. The doer will always ask how. How to anything. But there is no how. How will come from a personal mind. So the one who asks how won't walk on water because there is a one. But the walking on water happened. Q: For you ? Jac: This body has never done that, no. Did that answer your question ? Q: Yes, I'm laughing because I would like to walk on water with the feet, yes. Jac: Maybe it's physically possible and then there could be a you who does it but the way it happened in the bible because there was no you there it happened. And within the phenomenal world there can be doers doing something and non-doers doing something. There is no action in the physical world that is totally belonging to where there is no doer. There is no one action in the world for example walking on water that only self realization has that as part of the package. There can't be because this is only the appearance. Q: When you were still in an ego did you have intention for this ? Jac: Yes, I was going for it and there was a feeling that there was no option but to go for it. I was being pushed from behind. Something was pushing forcefully for self realization. There was always an "of course this is going to happen." Q: Everybody who has woken up is different ? Jac: There is no one clear way. Every single one is different. Q: What was the year afterwards like for you ? Jac: Pretty rough. An inability to concentrate, to hold a conversation. Moving a lot physically mostly around India, came back to Ireland to see what happens, after three weeks I found myself on a plane going back to India again. Everything unsettled. I suppose life hadn't started around me again. The dust hadn't settled. And that was the sensation. Nothing was solid. So physical movement was manifesting. A lot of sickness. .. Q: So it was a gradual process during that year until you reached a point where it resolved...? ... Jac: Some kind of alignment took place. But the first wallop was with the sante daime medicine but the classics of the burning out and the days of shaking and losing a block of six days, like totally lost, all of that happened. There was a lot of the classic transformation stuff. And because it was so physical for Jackie the integration, physiologically what had to take place made sense because the physical body has it's own cause and effect you know ? And I think that's why that year was like that. Q: So the catalyst was the medicinal ? Jac: That was the first big whammy. Q: And then there were 2 others ? Jac: There were. Not medicine induced because I got out of medicine. One was with Amma, in Kerola, in her ashram. It was my first time in India and it was the first place I went to. There were 6 days that I lost. I was with someone at the time. So luckily I was taken care of. It was a guy I was with at the time and he was just so pissed off with me. He told me afterwards – "you were just like a zombie, you couldn't talk to me, you couldn't do anything, you'd just lie there and I'd say come on Jac, - food – and he'd pull me off the mattress on the floor which is the bedding system there and I'd eat and I'd go back. I was just a zombie basically. The coming out of it, or the coming back into physical human awareness –there was very much this feeling of something falling, like a house of cards falling, the sensation of something condensing or getting denser and what was making that happen was the thought of sex. Because my man was there and he came out of the shower and I was looking at his body. And I remember the thought –"How do I connect my body to him and enjoy it ? That's the weirdest thing to do," and low and behold some kind of desire came up and bingo, back came Jackie the woman ! Oh Jesus, I've blown it. What happened ? Here I am desiring sex. What happened ? He said "you've been really strange." And so the desire for sex wasn't gone, it wasn't burned out. So there was a remaining desire which made Jackie reappear as the woman, the individual, the belief system was still running. But after the sainte daime and existence itself being pulled, it was clear that none of this is real. I had no other information, I didn't know anything about nonduality, nobody knew what I was talking about – but nothing was real, even existence itself wasn't real, and then several years later this next whammy. And I knew a lot at that stage. Obviously I had left everything and I knew I was on the way out. So I knew that one thing is making me believe – the desire actually is giving life force to the idea that I exist as an individual. So then I had to focus on desire. I seriously focused on desire and that took another year to break. Q: By manifesting them all or just watching ? Jac: Oh, I had fun. I had closure to get with different partners or meet people and learn whatever I had to learn that it was all actually nothing. And one morning there was this clarity of that's the end of it actually. And whether sex happens or not happens it's like brushing my teeth. It makes no difference at all. But the desire for sex is gone. Like there's no desire to brush your teeth, it just happens. There is no desire for sex either – just fried ! So that was the second one – the six days at Amma's. And the third one was in Tiruvanamali at Ramana Maharshi's environs and I was in the shower –which is a bucket of cold water, scooping it on top of yourself - and there was the sensation that mind was breaking and the thought did pass thru that I need psychiatric care and I'm in India and ought oh – not a good place to go to psychiatric hospital and I'm really in trouble here and it's like I'm going to do it anyway. I'm not fighting this. I'm not going to believe this thought. Q: All of India is a psychiatric hospital. (laughter) Jac: And standing in the shower something in mind broke. It felt like a big lump of ice just got smashed and it went into small pieces and started melting and memory was seen as memory. There was no way of knowing if yesterday had happened unless memory was playing. And memory is believed and therefore I think I was Jackie yesterday. But actually there is no way at all of proving it except memory is believed. So mind started to break in this way and I saw the components of concepts and there was clarity that it would never again come together. There was no glue here. And at that time there was serious silence happening. I was on my own and I was doing nothing except just sitting in an ashram and eating and the silence prevailed. And at that time there was a practice I was doing of not moving unless something moved my body. So there was a lot of sitting and doing nothing and life became very simple. It's like –"I'm not getting up because it's a good idea to make a cup of tea. We'll see if the body gets up and makes a cup of tea." And it does but much less frequently than what you would normally. But it does. People who said afterwards "is that what happened at that point ? Is that what that experience was ? They just said my face was tight and pulled back and it was like "don't go near her." People who saw me, who lived there – other westerners said "you just looked scary –stay away from her." Q: It's like an absorption ? Jac: I guess so. A breakdown. A cracking up of something.  So there were the three parts. But after the experience at Amma's it was clear that from then on every person that ever was was never a person. Sometimes there would be like a gold thread and I would know exactly – this person is going to lift this hand now. It's like there was a gold thread out of their hand. And I would be seeing this and dictating every movement. Everybody is a puppet and I'm a puppet too. Oh this is wild. It's all puppets ! Just energy moving and the idea superimposed on top of it. And it became so clear then that the ownership idea is on top of the movement that is already going to happen anyway. Q: Do you still have that experience now ? Jac: There is a knowing that it's just energy moving thru form. That gold thread thing stopped, that ability to see how it worked or the labeling stopped. Q: There is a deep sense of knowing. Beingness...(.undecipherable) Jac: Of course you know it. All that's happening here is it's resonating. It's what you are. How can you not know what you are ? If you go to satsang there's some drive to get rid of this pestering thought that you exist as a personal "I". You're nothing. It's great. Q: Did you practice "Who am I ?" Jac: I did. I did that a lot. Obsessively. "Who's sitting here ? Who's looking ?" It was like a mantra. It was something to bring the mind to one focus, which ended up with no answer. Because there's no answer and that's what's effective. There is that kind of dropping of the "I" story with the "who am I ?" It's been balanced out that every time the I thought was noticed "Who's having that thought, rather than "Why am I thinking that ? What residue is still there ?" I became not interested in the subject matter. And that's why self inquiry is really a great tool if it makes sense to you. Because it's not interested in what the story is, what the issue is, what is to be burned out, what is still being carried, what conditioning is still in place. Not interested in any of that. But who's thinking ? It brings you a step back. It's behind the story. So we stop this engagement in the trap. So when the I thought would arise, whoa – "who's thinking that thought ? Who thinks they're thinking that ? And the emptiness would be what was there. Do you use it ? Q: I never go deep. I have so many stories. (Hard to understand) Jac: It's a very useful way to go behind the one who's observing. Because it's the mind who's observing. The mind plays at observing too. It's just not as connected with the stories. Who's watching the observer ? Q: Nothing. Jac: Yes, pay attention there. That's the "Who am I ?" by another door. Same thing. So when you are watching "Who's watching the watcher ?" Who's seeing the one who's watching ? Is this gobbly gook ? Does this sound totally nuts to you ? Q: Of course. Q: There is no one watching. Jac: Yes. There isn't even watching. Q: It's always fun to watch the train of thoughts. Who's watching this one ? .... Jac: Great. How are you doing ? Q: I was wondering when you were explaining your experiences it was almost like thoughts were coming without any feeling/sense of an "I" speaking ? Jac: Yes. Q: Because for me there is an energy of "I-ness" that comes, from which the concepts fall thru. I just don't do it spontaneously. And then I can drop it and fall back into presence. But it's almost like going thru a veil and back and forth. Jac: Okay. So the sense of "I" ness might disappear ? Q: Oh it does. It's like a veil and I can just be present. But when I become active with another person it's almost like it's me that's doing it. It's like a stickiness to it especially when there are concepts that I'm focusing on. Jac: Maybe it's just a thought that it's you that's doing it. Q: It's a feeling sense. It's not just like a mental thought. Jac: Okay. The thought gives rise to the feeling. The thought is in so fast that the feeling sense of "I" ness is the first thing that's perceived. But there is a thought beforehand. It has to start with a concept. So there is a thought however subtle, however fine. So give a look. There is a thought beforehand. Check it out. It's the thought that's believed into the experience and than the experience has a feeling sense of an "I" ness and then it's noted and then a thought that the "I"ness is seen, recognized, and it seems like it only came in then – the concept of the I – it didn't. It started with the concept of the I, which is believed into your experience which gave rise to the feeling and then the feeling was noted and then it was recognized as a thought. The concept gave rise to the first feeling. Q: But the thought is not a verbalized thought. Jac: No. It's not even seen. It happens so fast – and it's giving you the experience of the feeling of an "I" ness, before you even see. So find that one. There is a thought before the sense of "I" ness. Watch out for it. Get onto it and it will break. If you see it you're not believing it; if you're seeing it, you're out of it. If something is happening for you it's believed that it's happening for you. It's already believed into your experience. You are believing things into your experience. Otherwise they wouldn't be noticed. They wouldn't be happening to you. Q: Do you have a fear of death ? Jac: No. It's like getting my hair cut. Q: But how do you actually know ? Because have you ever been in a situation where someone was trying to kill you ? You say this but do you actually know ? (Inaudible) Jac: If there is nothing to be lost or nothing to be gained, it couldn't make any difference then. Q: How do we know ? Jac: Because it's not an intellectual knowing. It's absolutely clear that nothing can be lost or nothing can be gained. It's just the same amount of energy all the time. It's just being created or destroyed... Q: You're saying if someone comes now with a gun, it wouldn't matter to you ? Jac: No, it's quite likely that the body would jump up and run behind something. That happens in consciousness. Fine. But death, no. There is nothing happening in any of it. Even hiding behind the pole if somebody came in with a gun. Q: In reality we're already dead ? Jac: That's right. We're not here at all. So however it would play out is just it playing out. It's nothing to do with anything that's important. What you are can't die. What you are was never born. Q: It's just identification. Jac: The identification dies. There is a perceived loss if you think you are the body. Because limitation is applied - So there would be limitations everywhere. It's all about loss and gain then. But if you know you're not the body and you know that to be so, it's all okay. Q: Death might not be the problem but the suffering that might come is my fear. Jac: Is there a strong preference for no physical pain ? Q: Yes. Jac: So go after the preference. The pain isn't the problem, the preference is the problem. Q: I was reading in Ramana -The one who accepts pain and pleasure as the same is the one who is happy. Jac: It's not the pain that causes the problem. It's the preference. It's so easy. Q: It's easy when we are pain free to have that discussion. It is not so easy being in tremendous pain. There is a pain body and you can do all you can do to separate saying "I am not the body." But something in my consciousness is experiencing a great deal of discomfort. Jac: Okay. Discomfort is okay if the idea of "I don't like this" isn't running. That's the preference by another phrase. I'm saying the same thing in a different way. Q: So what I hear is acceptance about what is ? Jac: That's a good strategy. There's still one who's accepting but sure practice it. Do whatever helps. But accepting it all without judgment. Q: My fantasy is "I love what is but please give me the morphine." That's obviously one of my fears. Jac: It's a fear. You are just running a fear. Because you have no physical pain now do you ? But yet it's running. Funny how the thought of it comes up even though you are fine. But the thought of it is alive. But you know the thought that you are running –that physical pain that would cause you to die, I wouldn't like it – that thought has nothing to do with whether you are going to have physical pain or not. It's just completely floating around. Go after the preference. You are your body or not your body, not the issue. The preference is where it has you. It's not going to work for you -"I'm not my body." It's not a pain killer. Not at all. Q: In fact death would be a preference. Jac: Yes, because the preferences are still running. So I don't want the pain, I'll have death, thanks very much. The preference will kill you. Q: So it's yes to everything ? Jac: No. Stop engaging with the preference. Because you can engage with the preference and say "I really don't want this but I have to accept it. I really don't want it but I'll have it." No, no. Go after the wiring that has the preference. That prefers this over that and watch it. And you can be sure that you will find it all over your day. Constantly. Q: I'm a comfort junkie. Jac: A great freedom will come when the preference thought is not believed. I'm only talking about a thought, I'm not talking about changing anything. It's only in your head. Watch the preferences. Find 10 a day for starters. Q: I saw a bumper sticker that said "Don't believe anything you think." Jac: If you just observe your thoughts and not believe them and see them for what they are – sure there is a freedom in that. But letting your mind be the boss and you being a slave of what it presents – torture. Q: Even something like "there is no closure is a story". Jac: Yes, everything that I say is rubbish. Everything that can be said is just the movie. But the movie appears to be playing. It's not, but as the movie appears to be playing it's always rubbish. Everything that can be spoken is already a concept and it's already too late. It's already a lie. It already has an opposite. Therefore how can it be the truth ? And all that's a story but it points toward something. And that's as good as it gets. And words can only point. If they can name it, it's a lie. So silence is the way to go. That's another story but .. you know. Q: Can you talk about more preferences please ? Jac: The likes and dislikes and it's as simple as I like coffee over tea. It can be everywhere. It's possible but it's very tricky to go after the serious ones and not mind the little ones but I would recommend go for them all. Remove from your vocabulary "I like, I dislike." "I prefer this to this." Remove it from your vocabulary. See how you get off. Because it's all desire. It's the very thing that keeps the I going. Because it defines who I am to like tea over coffee or the sun over the rain. It keeps the ego solid. It keeps identity going. If there are no likes or dislikes there is nobody there. When there is no preference running there is nobody there. And those snippets of nobody there happen all during the day. They only come up when you are exercising something that is your thought. That's the only time the ego is alive is when it's running an I thought that is about me. So preferences are more deeply about me than anything. Q: Isn't prayer then a call to some kind of divine intervention in an outcome in which there is a preference ? Jac: It depends what prayer is about. If it's prayer requesting, for sure it's the controller – "I don't like what's happening so help me so that it will be the way I like it." But there is also devotion, which is prayer. And devotion remains but it's devoted to nothing. It ‘s just devotion flowing but it's not for anything and it's going nowhere for nothing. And that still happens. But the mind will, as long as the controller is there and has preference for something it's going to be to a God out there and it wants an outcome. That's the package. Q: Give me an example of devotion. Jac: Did you ever get that gush of love ? Q: Indeed I have. Jac: But it's not for a person, it's to something beyond. That exquisite gush. Q: It's more like me by association ? Q: Reverence. Q: Some people are not comforted by prayer. Jac: Yeah ? It stops the mind because it's like a mantra. That's the comfort aspect of prayer is because prayer is in that context a mantra. It puts the mind focused on something which is not the issue that's creating the suffering. You can use prayer or you can use "Jack and Jill went up the hill to fetch a pail of water." Energetically because prayer is such a huge thing for humanity, energetically what's bigger has more power literally. Group thought and stuff. So it's easier to get some solice from prayer than saying Jack and Jill went up the hill. But only because of the group energy thing. It's physiological.  But the ego will not like, will reject the idea of curbing preferences. Because the ego is not going to help you with its own downfall. Anything else hanging around that one for somebody ? Q: Inaudible Jac: So you have to enjoy this movie because that's all that's happening. Yeah. (laughter) It's great. Sometimes a window appears when what you're doing seems so ridiculous. It's like you can be cycling a bicycle - I'm actually going nowhere. Just the whole clarity of just kind of popping through. You know ? Enjoy those moments. Enjoy the silliness of it. Creation, living – it's great fun. Q: So isn't part of the fun the preferences ? Jac: Funny but it's a bit of a raw deal that one. Enjoyment of all things is there for you. The mind will say if you prefer one thing you will enjoy it more. No. Actually you can't. You are going to enjoy it to the same level of whether or not you have the preference for it. So the fun is to be had whether or not the preference is there. Q: So you're suggesting that if we do let go of our preferences, the fun will still be there to be had ? Jac: Yes. Because the fun doesn't come from a thought that "I enjoy this." The fun comes from the lightness of what you are. But what we do is we reroute whatever– I have a preference for surfing for example –mind reroutes surfing and I satisfy my desire for surfing tomorrow morning. If I go out on a board tomorrow morning it will make me happy. What happens is that mind runs the desire onto the surfboard only to have peace when the desire is gone. You go out on the surfboard and there is no desire running. That's the pleasure ! Because there is no desire running. Can you imagine ? And you think it has to do with the surfing ! Simply because the preference is so believed to be so. All it is is the peace when you get whatever it is. It's just in abeyance for a while. Q: We all try to do the same thing, and some things are more detrimental ? Jac: But all you're looking for is the absence of desire. So if you run a preference we're giving fuel into desire. So the only way you're going to enjoy the preference is when the desire stops. Don't bother doing that circuit at all ! Just enjoy it all. If you think it has to do with a circuit like that sure. Just enjoy it all. It's so simple. Q: So that's the ultimate preference ? Jac: Yes, of course because something is pulling you towards the joy that you are. Something is pulling. But mind will say not there. Do you get that ? But the hit is temporary. It's always temporary. Then another desire will come and off we go in the next desire because you're convinced it's in a desire. And marketing and the commercial world we live in says it's out there. Out there will make you happy. Q: Not only that even our bodies tell us that – the next hunger. Jac: Let the day come if you eat you eat, if you don't you don't. If hunger is there it's fine. It's all okay. But you won't have to go hungry. It kind of flows like that in a generous way anyway. Everything is taken care of. Really it is. Do you get the freedom of no preferences then ? It's a nice little key. Q: It's total freedom then. Jac: Yeah, it's freedom. Q: It's interesting how (Inaudible) Jac: Let the holding on be a happening in consciousness, don't claim it as your holding. Q: I don't think it's possible to let of preferences, there is only to notice that this is a preference and who would I be if I dropped this preference ? You have to constantly be there. Is that the goal to drop preferences ? Jac: Okay. On one level there is no goal. Okay ? So if preferences are believed to be the source of happiness they will bring you pain. Q: It would be a preference to let of preferences. Jac: Yes. As long as there is a preference for liberation yes, there would be a preference to let go of preferences. Q: So all you can do is to notice "I'm having a preference thought." Jac: Okay and then don't believe it. If you're noticing it you're not believing in it. So don't follow it thru. Cut it's power supply and it won't rise up so much any more. You can't have your cake and eat it. "Oh I see a preference but I'm going to do it anyway." I mean who are you kidding ? Find out how crazy this thought is. If you're really watching, get interested and see. "If I don't go surfing tomorrow morning" in the example. Mind will say "oh you missed something. Oh you're becoming a boring old fart." Mind will throw up anything and there's a string of thoughts now to keep the ego going. I don't know how you could see the intricacies of how ego stays alive if you're not going to stop preferences and see what it digs up because by believing in the preference you're avoiding a whole package of feeling bad. And those bundle of thoughts are only garbage but they motivate you enough to be a slave of your preferences. Q: Well can you have desire without being a slave ? Jac: Desire happens and then you're not a slave. But if it's your desire, if you go for it, okay you're caught in it, you're a slave of it. But if you don't go for it see what it brings up and you'll discover that it's all empty. There's freedom in that. Then it's okay to have a desire. There's desire, I can take it or not take it. If I don't take it I'm not scared of the consequences. There's just going to be 5 or 6 little thoughts that come up saying whatever. And that's the end of it. Then it can go either way and there's no preference. The desire is blown open. Does that make sense ? Q: Let's say someone presents you with an invitation to come here. And you say "That sounds great." Doesn't that create a seed of desire ? Jac: No. But there wasn't a desire to come. There was something moving in that direction but it wasn't desire. It wasn't "I want to." Q: Once you make the plane reservation isn't that a preference ? Jac: No It's just what's happening next. Q: And to make the plane on time, does that become a preference ? Jac: I don't know. Somebody phones, I was going to take a bus, somebody phoned the day before "can I take you to the airport, I'm free tomorrow morning ?" Fine. It all just kind of happens. There is no commentary. And if I miss the plane that's what is happening then. There isn't a lot that could rattle me. What could rattle you ? It's only what's happening then. What's happening then. How could you get pissed off ? Without preferences it's all fine. If there's one person here or 200 people here, it's all fine. It's only the way it is. So what ? Q: How do you know that it's better to make the plane or than to miss it ? You don't know. Jac: That's right. There's nothing lost and nothing gained. There can't be. There is just energy moving thru form. Q: We pretend to know a lot of things. Jac: Yeah. It's great isn't it ? It's a big joke when you know how it works. Q: When there are no preferences each moment is just as valuable as the moment before ? Jac: Yes, they are all equal. Valuable and invaluable. There isn't even that marker on it. But absolutely they are all equal. In pain or not in pain. They are all equal. Q: In the end it doesn't really matter. Even at the beginning. Jac:  No. But it appears to matter as long as there is an ego running. The ego wants things to matter. But no, it doesn't matter. Q: inaudible -- Jac: Ego is mind. I interchange the two. It's not bad, it's not good. It's what makes creation possible. Isn't that fantastic ! From that perspective the capacity to experience is possible because of mind. Because there is an individual who experiences something. Everything must be separate from you in order for you to experience it. So for that to happen there must be two and ego makes that possible. So that you can play. So that you can imagine that there is something other than what you are. Q: So the image came to me just now – in the beginning in seems like we were the rat in the maze. On one side pain and on the other side food and we were trying to get out of the maze. Not realizing what was watching. Jolted and the other side getting food. What you're saying is we're not in the maze. We're just watching. There is the shock and the pleasure. Jac: Yes. We're just watching the show. You are being enjoyed by what you are. Shall we wrap it up ?   Listen to this satsang : Maui, Hawaï, July 9th, 2009

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  There was time, when awakening was the privilege of a few, and that era is coming to an end. It will come back; it's all cyclical, but the Kali Yuga age (age of ignorance) is coming to an end. All about awakening is on the internet, it's freely available, the steps are there, whether the steps will be taken or not, that's the flow. And it's not that "Oh, we know how to do it, so it will be possible!", it's actually more that the cycle of the earth, of manifestation, is moving into that part of the wheel,(totally cyclical) whereby awakening is very possible. It's not as difficult as it is said in the scriptures, it's not such a big deal any more. (Questioner : I have some unexamined notions that we have to go through severe austerities, to burn up some of the deep things, and only a few can do that...?) Yes. And that's how it was last thousands of years. It was recommended to spend twelve years with your master (who chose you) before you were taught anything about Advaita. They were the structures, now there's a quickening. And it's not because the world is going to dissolve itself, it's not the whole thing will all be enlightened... rubbish, it's just an expression, it's just a manifestation that is unfolding... (Questioner : But the frequencies are more widespread, and maybe it's not as difficult...?) Yes, it's not as difficult at all. Even the physiological alignment will be less than what it was for Jac (me) and others in the past, the physical alignment is now more gentler, when for Jac, something like 3 years ago, there were rattling, shaking, disfunction and inability to talk... So go for it ! (Laughter) And in the 'going for it', 'YOU' can't get it (Laughter). It's just a concept, a shift. But don't replace it with a concept that "it's easy". It's just that, that's how it was, point. Rest at the source of the next thought, that's all and forget about waking up!   Watch this satsang excerpt video : The Kali Yuga Age Is Coming To An End

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Happiness (Born to Be Free - Chapter 1)  What does it take for you to be happy? Do you touch into happiness for brief moments or do you have periods of sustained happiness? Is happiness a feeling out there in your future that you believe you will eventually attain? Do you have a formula in your mind that is the recipe for your happiness? When you fulfil that formula will you really be happy and, most importantly, will it last? Is this happiness a consequence of finding the right partner, lover, house or job? If you believe that happiness is awaiting you in your future, then rest as- sured it will never come. Be prepared for a long wait, for that is simply an idea in your mind that keeps hap- piness at arm's length. Happiness is a direct experience arising from your innate nature. The origin of happiness rests completely outside the perimeters of your mind. Your mind has no capacity to embrace, engage, or in- terpret real and permanent happiness. A feel-good ex- perience or temporary pleasure is not happiness. The happiness that every person can enjoy is of a permanent, unchanging and undisturbable nature. If you can say that you have never been happy in your life, then you must know what happiness is in order to recognise that you do not feel it. Unlike other methods and techniques, a simple path towards under- standing what happiness is, is offered here to you. The keys to living in the freedom of absolute happiness are in your physical hands right now. Does your mind hold the opinion that you are not entitled to feel happy? Some people deny them- selves happiness because there is too much suffering in the world. Others believe there is value in punishing themselves for acts in their past. Perhaps you believe that happiness is something that other people enjoy but somehow it does not happen for you. All of these reasonings are constructs of the human mind, serving only to keep happiness at bay. Achieving personal and professional goals brings a relative satisfaction. Some people appear to have it all — a wonderful partner, attractive lifestyle, material wealth and so on. But, as things in life become more familiar, they generally become less entertaining. Every new addition to one's life offers a distraction for a while, but the novelty phase associated with each personal or professional achievement comes to an end sooner or later. At the point of noticing this pattern, one recognises that to set up another goal would simply lead to the same place—that place of inner dissatisfaction and emptiness. The search for happiness continues. There is no readily accessible model in our modern world that tells us about real and permanent happiness. In this commercially driven, economically progressive era, the innate human thirst for happiness is cleverly exploited by commerce for its own ends. The sophisticated modern mind has created a concept of happiness, as if it is something each of us should apply effort to attain. Many believe that stepping out of their social status momentum would mean they would lose their chance for happiness. What would become of those who believe that to drop out means you cannot keep up with the pace and so you must be a loser? That defines one game of life, if you choose to play it in that way. There are many ways to play out your life. Take a moment to see if you want to write your script yourself or do you want society or another external influence to write it for you? This is your choice. Whether you exercise it or not, recognise at this point that the choice is yours to make. So what is happiness for you? Is happiness what you feel when you are going on a holiday, playing with your children, gardening, out on the golf course or having a drink on a Friday evening? If happiness depends on an external influence for you to experience it, then you are not feeling happiness. External circumstances that allow you to enjoy a good feeling when relieved from pressures of work, when you step out of your mind and relax with alcohol, are in nature, or playing with children cannot induce true happiness. These escapes from your normal day-to-day experience present valuable distractions and are a source of pleasure and relaxation but happiness is a different thing. For example, you may believe that you would be happy if you had a house beside the sea. This belief can develop into a desire and you can focus on achieving it. When you realise that goal and get your house beside the sea, this desire naturally subsides and allows a natural stillness to arise in your mind. You may even think you are happy now that this desire is fulfilled. However, this happiness is short lived. Why? It is not in the nature, characteristics or the properties of a house beside the sea to afford happiness to its dwellers. A house, no matter where it's located, does not have the capacity to give happiness. If it did, then it would follow that all people would find the same level of happiness in having that object. In contrast, some will find the same property conjures feelings of loneliness and isolation. The quality of happiness is not in the nature of any object. So if a house beside the sea is not responsible for making you happy, where does this feeling of happiness come from when you initially acquire that desired object? Happiness arises from within. It is a quality of your innate nature. Thoughts distract you from consciously abiding in and enjoying your innate nature. Thoughts create all desires and desires can be all-consuming. Your mind can convince you that attaining a particular object of desire will make you happy. The truth is that when your mind is still, a natural feeling of happiness arises within you. Your true nature is causeless and living causeless happiness is your natural state of being. When a desire is satisfied, the desire subsides and mind rests for a period. The absence of desire, the absence of thought, allows what is within to be experienced. An unmanaged mind presents another desire soon. This in turn convinces you that you can revive your subsiding state of happiness by attaining another detail that will make it all perfect again! This state of temporary happiness can be enjoyed with the subsidence of desires. Yet, within the state of happiness, there is a moment of causeless happiness. But the mind very quickly takes over and offers an objective cause and the cycle of anticipating a repetition of the state of happiness begins again. Managing desire and your mind, which is the source of desire, yields an opportunity to rest in and enjoy the innate happiness abiding always. Happiness is natural and does not require support of desires, thoughts, emotions, effort, goals, or finances! The feeling experience of happiness does not change according to external circumstances; it is not contingent on extraneous human living. It is within us all, dormant perhaps, but innate to human life force. Happiness exists independently of external circumstances. To say that you were happy until your husband died is not understanding happiness. That is not happiness because happiness cannot be given or taken away by anything that life throws at you. It is internal, unchanging, and constant. It is still, it is calm, and it is complete. It searches for nothing, it does not seek anything, it is absolute, and it is. Your access to it is in your capacity to be still, to relax, and to stop engaging with your thinking. Thus the only thing that can stop you from feeling happiness is you. To continue to look outside for something that is already inside only serves to distract you from looking within. There is a fundamental flaw in the pursuit of happiness. It can never be attained from without and so to pursue it in any way is futile. The very idea of a quest for happiness is a misnomer. Happiness is a natural rhythm within you and, as long as you trawl the mind and desires in search of it, you will not find it. All external circumstances, activities, possessions and events are designed to keep the mind entertained. But happiness is outside the realm of the mind; it is outside the functionings and capacity of the mind. It is in the realm of placing your attention on your innate nature. To feel and experience real happiness, causeless happiness, requires a conscious or unconscious surrendering of your interest in your thoughts. On arriving at that point of knowing that physical things or people or situations cannot make you happy there are possibilities for where to step forward. Many increase pressure on their relationships, expecting more than the relationship is designed to yield. Some look for an other that may offer a more exciting sexual distraction. These options present their own consequences. Others arrive at a place labelled depression, presented as disillusionment with life. The meaningless of everything has become evident. When nothing satisfies, general motivation to live lessens. In truth, this is a moment to be celebrated. The search for purpose and meaning is now ripe to begin. A choice is presented. You can take a good and honest look at life and face the hard questions about the purpose and meaning of your life. You can go further and ask what and who you are. Thus, you may begin to feel and address a yearning to know the truth. This involves taking a risk and entering unknown territory that will bring change. The only other option is to continue as before, accepting that the world does not satisfy and, when emotional pain gets too much to bear, alcohol and/or drugs, recreational or pharmaceutical, are society's answers to this naturally occurring yearning for understanding, spiritual knowledge and happiness. Arriving at the place where you know that there must be more to life and to you is an opening, not a dead end. Your choice to walk through this opening must be made in total awareness; this is not a rabbit hole that you can peep into before deciding if you will enter. The choice is simple; take a risk or continue as is and play it safe. This book is filled with signposts to assist you in sourcing and resting within that deepest part of who you are. If you choose you can work this material and make real change happen within you. This will result in your life changing externally to some extent and internally to a greater extent. Be prepared to let the consequences take care of themselves. Everything will work out for the good of all when you walk the path towards understanding truth. It always does. If you are simply curious, your mind will remain in charge and it will judge this material as an intellectual or academic exercise and lose its potential for you. Are you someone who likes to process and analyse information as soon as it comes to your attention? Does this method generally lead you to understanding? In and of itself, that can be a very effective system. Many who take in new ideas in this way process information only and never take that step towards practising the material. The mind likes the feeling of understanding ideas, rejecting or accepting them as it sees fit and it is momentarily satisfied. It is the nature of the intellect to doubt, so doubts regarding this material will arise and the cycle begins again as the intellect looks for another stimulus to give another temporary hit. All through this process, the mind is in charge. In the natural cerebral pause, before the onset of doubt, most do not take the next step to set the mind aside and actually try out the suggested signposts. Spiritual practise involves actively ignoring the mind. It initially involves a doing, an action, a practise outside of the normal realm of mind. Expect your mind to be filled with resistance. To practise this material means to relax and surrender the mind with all of its skills and concepts. They are of little use within the spiritual domain. As one starting point, have you considered that some place within you recognises happiness? If you know what happiness is not, then maybe you might know what it is. All people have a sense that the capacity to feel happiness is within them, and some have experienced it. This path towards truth leads to happiness and more. There is much that lies beyond your mind, so do not limit yourself to the desire for feeling happy, but see where this road can lead. At the core, this book invites you to explore who you are beyond your mind, beyond the identity that your family and society has placed on you and that you have placed on yourself. Who are you when you expose the deeper and secret parts of yourself to yourself? Who are you when you go beyond the murky unsavouries? Be totally honest with yourself. Maybe there is kindness and a calm and peaceful nature under the recesses of all else within you. Let us see what you find. All of this leads to a place beyond your mind, so be prepared to know that you are not your thoughts. You have thoughts. The number is estimated to be in the region of 90,000 daily. But they are not you and do not define you. Let us see what there really is to you when you peel back all of your experiences and suffering, and all the memories that may be over-active when they better belong at rest and ignored with the distant past. Experiences are very valid at the time when they occur; they brought us to this point. But let that be their total value. Don't drag them around like a comfort blanket, but glean their best use and be present to who you are in this moment. Your mind will use any material from your life to draw your attention from the present moment. Mind does not exercise quality control; it will throw up stories and feelings from your past or imagined future to prevent you from directing your attention elsewhere. Mind constantly presents the past or future as present. As you walk this road within, exploring the questions of who you are and what are you doing on this planet, your mind is quickly out of its depth. It will make every effort to distract you and pull you back to what it calls "real life." I put it to you that your mind has no sense of what ultimate reality is, your mind is a tool to help you function effectively in this world and it is limited to that function. The questions that you may have, that lie beyond day-to-day living, science and philosophy, can all be answered from within you. Yes, all of them, but it requires throwing out thoughts and concepts that you may hold dear. If you are willing then, let's go! Purchase "Born to Be Free" from Amazon UK
Purchase "Born to Be Free" from Amazon US

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Desire (From Awakening to Liberation - Forthcoming new book)  All desire arises from an innate lack of contentment. While nothing that mind can imagine and want is of any real value, the personal 'I' will ensure that each day is peppered with efforts to fulfill desires. In fact when identified thought is running, there is interest in little else. It is the nature of desire to prompt the mind to create a world for its fulfillment. The state of craving for anything inhibits deeper experience. When mind is fixated on a desire, maturation is arrested. If you inquire into yourself, all you really desire is desirelessness. Desirelessness can be recognized as the moment of satisfaction when desire is fulfilled. There is calmness, perfection and a feeling of completeness. Desire for an object or experience is a compensation for the lack of fulfillment of the ultimate desire – desirelessness. There is no end to the cyclical nature of desire; however, the cycle falls away when it is seen to be a looped pattern of thinking. The perpetuation of desire is predicated on the fact that personal ‘I’ desires the very thing that cannot come by desire. The smallest desire has the ability to ignite a long line of action as one objective idea feeds the next. To engage in desire is a lack of discrimination; let it be seen that acquiring objects, be it a car or a lover, can never bring you to the end of desire. In order for you to enjoy something it must first be objectified by mind as an independent form or formless experience. There is only movement in consciousness which we call life force or functioning and we give names to create an objectified world. Then if this apparent division into subject-object is taken to be true, the desires to have and to own, to acquire and enjoy, will follow. Thus the mind will make the body dance to its tunes. When a desire is fulfilled the personal 'I' is happy for a while. This happiness arises because of the absence of desire and has nothing to do with the properties of the object of desire. Original perfection is restored when desire is not running. If you imagine yourself to be separate from the world then the world will appear as separate from you, and you will experience desire and fear. As long as there is identification with the body, attractions and repulsions will operate. You cannot but see the world through the ideas you have about yourself. Managing desire has nothing to do with your relationships with objects of desire; it is your own misunderstanding that requires correction. Find out how the perception of objects arises in mind and do not follow thought patterns in ignorance. There is no object which is of a different nature from the subject, and as there is only the subject, how can it be seen as an object ? Let it be realized that there is only subject and then it is clear that there can be no division in such a vision. All experience rests on the reality of objects. If you investigate you will find that objects are unreal. Thus the effect of an unreal object is also non-existent and the experience of any effect is delusion. Let the end of desire and experience come into view through correct seeing. Understand that the world has no real existence and it will no longer be troublesome. It can be said that desire is the memory of pleasure and that fear is the memory of pain. These are simply habits of mind. Once you know they are impermanent and not real, why bother with them ? Pull attention away from the personal and impersonal, and all of this is just the flickering of energy. If you cannot, then there is a deeper understanding and a dropping of attachments that needs to take place. When mind turns to go outward, turn it inward instantly. It goes out due to the habit of looking for happiness in objects, but if you have seen that external objects are not the cause of happiness, then it is time to keep the direction of mind in check. In all whom search for truth there is a root desire to be free from misunderstanding, free from the personal. This pursuit continues for as long as you can be seduced by pleasure and goaded by pain, because desire continually agitates the mind. Desire is at the root of all misunderstanding. For as long as desire continues to hold your attention, the sense of good and bad, right and wrong, acceptable and unacceptable, will inevitably continue. This extract of Jac's forthcoming new book called "From awakening to liberation" was first published on nondualityamerica.wordpress.com

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(Article published in the french magazine '3ème Millenaire', October 2011) The "all about me" story can become a painful one. If you have become fed up with talking about "my life, my beliefs, my opinions, my belongings, my money, my life style..." then perhaps the futility of these unending and repetitive stories is beginning to show itself. Take a look and see if you can recognize that many of these stories about "me" are simply an attempt to defend who you THINK you are. Without these believed stories you might find you are not who you think you are. The personal I can never be satisfied because it is fundamentally inauthentic. Its very nature is filled with desire. There is no personal I that is constant and unchanging. The personal I knows no stillness and moves between pleasure and pain in response to the senses. The personal I is an insatiable idea constantly protecting itself and seeking acceptance and love. This unending cycle has no resolution. It can only be recognized as a futile play and abandoned. Let the "all about me" story fade out. At this point you will find there is something that is watching the play of the one who wants everything to be about itself. The one who sees the hungry personal I does not require the world to rotate around itself. The impersonal I has a knowing that all that happens does not have a direct impact on who you are. Simply put, the impersonal I does not take things personally. If your reference point has moved from the personal to the impersonal I, then emotional reactions will have lessened greatly. The search for love and attention will have taken a back seat and judgement of others largely subsided. Without a doubt, the impersonal I is a reference point from which you can operate with significantly less suffering. A sense of being less self-absorbed arises. Increasingly, you will notice that when the personal I appears, some drama ensues, because the personal I is perpetually seeking attention. Many have found that the withdrawing of attention from the personal to the impersonal I is a useful spiritual practice. For some, mind is calmer and for most an inner contentment begins to develop. This is a natural consequence of the removal of attention from who you think you are. So why bother training your mind to operate from the perspective of the impersonal? Undoubtedly there is less suffering when events are understood to be not about you. However, there is an inconsistency in this practice. It is impossible to be established in the position of the impersonal while the belief that you are a separate individual is still active. It will feel like there is an internal switch which reactivates the personal I. While it seems obvious to seek to avoid suffering and therefore relocate your perspective to the impersonal, something inherently continues to be not at rest. Both the personal and the impersonal points of reference are tricks of the mind as it attempts to make life an experience with less suffering. Mind imagines that something is to be gained by the perspective of the impersonal, but what it has to offer is limited and becomes not good enough. It is mind that plays with spiritual practice and you are not your mind. Neither are you a product of your thoughts. Both the personal and the impersonal are conceptual states of mind that run their course experientially, and you can erroneously think that you are making progress towards freedom. So what to do? What you are, is prior and beyond the games of mind. But while you think you are an individual, let it be known that this is idea of separation is no more than a thought believed into a subjective reality. What you are knows nothing of personal and impersonal, of spiritual practice, of awakening. You are not who you think you are and mind cannot conceive of what you truly are. Mind was not designed to know your true identity. Mind is a tool kit to allow manifestation to appear as real. It imagines as it goes. It believes or doesn't believe, as it goes. Who you are is not concerned. In fact, who you are has no capacity to imagine anything at all. Who you are knows nothing of who you think you are. The lies that are offered by mind are no more than a smokescreen, an apparent movement that has the capacity within itself to like and dislike what it has created. Do not be bothered with any of this as there is nothing to be fixed or changed here. However, the appearance of manifestation will appear to continue as it plays a game of control. It is mind that tries to control mind, tries to minimize suffering, tries to annihilate itself and imagines that without itself it will be happy. See this game of life for what it is. What you are is beyond all of it.  

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Download those quotes :   Personality is a useful tool but it cannot define who you are. Who you are lies far beyond who you think you are. You don't have to be perfect, you don't have to have good health, you don't have to do it before your body dies, it's got nothing to do with anything : it's right now, place your attention behind any stories, any concepts. From there, freedom arises, beauty arises, love arises. As long as the 'I' is looking for peace, there will be no peace. Something underneath is taking care of all, is taking care of what you really are. Thoughts appear and disappear all by themselves. There is no ownership to be claimed, because there is no owner. The freedom you look for is where you look from. Right here, right now, you can settle into your most natural state, that which enjoys uninterrupted peace of mind and liberation in your heart. Happiness is a direct experience arising from your innate nature. Your true nature is causeless and living causeless happiness is your natural state of being. All external circumstances, activities, possessions and events are designed to keep the mind entertained. But happiness is outside the realm of the mind, it is outside the functionings and capacity of the mind. It is in the realm of placing your attention on your innate nature. Be prepared to let the consequences take care of themselves. Rest at the source of the next thought. That's all. There is nothing to fix, nothing to do, nothing needs to be better, nicer, or in a certain way, all that stuff is just thoughts, there's no need to take any interest in it. How things are is just fine. Rest. Rest on the inside. Suffering is an idea that there is an 'I' that doesn't like what is happening. Let your attention be on what is taking place, not on how you fear it may impact you. The problem is not with the mind, it is the personal identification with thoughts that creates suffering. There is nothing to fear, ever. If you continue to place attention on fear-creating ideas, knowing that your thoughts create emotions, you will feel fear. In a moment, you can decide that enough is enough and end your pattern of feeling fear. Sit still, be quiet, and don't engage with any thoughts that come, just let them pass without your interest. Do not search for the Self for this would be like your eye trying to see your retina. You are Self. Nothing is actually happening to you unless you want to believe it is. To abide in your natural state requires no movement or doing on your part. Stopping unnecessary mental doing allows the natural state to arise. Deep stillness always rests under an agitated mind. Let your mind be focussed inward. Let your attention rest calmly in its natural state. Relax. Resting mind activity disarms gross identification. There is no 'how' to stop thinking. Simply stop getting involved in the stories of your thoughts. In any moment, you are either observing effortlessly or you are believing your thoughts. You may see that every single thought you can entertain only serves to perpetuate the personal 'I'. To feel and experience real happiness, causeless happiness, requires a conscious or unconscious surrendering of your interest in your thoughts. Let your mind be in total chaos. Your levels of thought activity are of no significance. Do not lose your attention in the story of any thought, and thoughts will subside. You are That which watches all. Stop engaging with thoughts and do not make this disengagement with thoughts something to do ! This is not about feeling emptiness, it is being emptiness. You cannot try to be it, you are it. Be that which sees what is seeing. Do not be the watcher. You are That which sees that which is watching. In the effortless neutrality of your natural state, all doubts, fears and anxieties vanish: they only come back to serve you. All comes from the Absolute, stays as Absolute, and merges back into Absolute. Through your thoughts, you made what is unreal real to you. The world cannot exist independently of your mind, so how can the world be other than mind ? All presenting in manifestation was created by you, and it will be destroyed by you, on transcending mind. Both mind and world rise and fall within Reality that never moves. Be still, quiet and patient. There is only you. How can there be a distance between you and you ? There is nothing external to That. Effortlessly drop the thought of things being external. Simply abide in the Self. Sink into the Self 24-7 until time reveals that time also is a concept and until who is doing the abiding, merges with the Self. There is no journey for you to travel, no shift for you to make from ego to Self, as this requires two and, therefore, is just another thought. When there is no idea of what silence is or is not, then there is silence. Yet this is not a happening: it simply is. The pull towards Truth has its origin in manifestation, not in grace. The comfort that mind seeks out in the idea of 'grace calling you home' must be dropped. Non-duality is best considered as a disposition of the mind. It is not appropriate for application to worldly affairs, and the wisdom to deal with such matters must therefore be developed independently. The search for truth does not end in finding truth phenomenally: there is nothing gained anew in Self-realization. The phenomenal world is no more than the play of consciousness trying to control, trying to make itself understood and known to itself. Better to allow this to continue as it will, without identifying with any of it. The world appearance is consciousness, and there is nothing apart from this. It is consciousness alone that manifests as mind, intellect, body and senses. Yet consciousness does not change. The constant of change is a quality of the appearance of its own reflection. Without the movement of thought, there is no phenomenal world. All that appears as the world is dependent on you to validate its existence, and this can only happen if you have taken it to be true that you have an independent existence. The idea that you are real is but a thought in consciousness. Creation is but a momentary appearance in consciousness. It is the play of thought as memory that makes you believe that it continues over time. Without the projection of the mind, the world cannot exist. That world that appears to you in your dreams at night is just as unreal as the world that appears to you when you are awake. There is no difference whatsoever. Nothing happens in either the waking or dreaming state, since the substance of both is consciousness. What you are cannot be objectified, cannot be knowable and cannot come and go. What you are is not within the appearance. It is slavery to imagine yourself to be in a process, to have a past and future and to imagine you are going somewhere. What you are is not developing or heading to an end point. If you can experience presence, you cannot be presence. If you can experience being-ness, you cannot be being-ness. Whatever can be identified you cannot be. Ego presents great fear at the thought of its own annihilation, but when the ego is not given attention, where is it? What is it? It is only an idea and hence there is nothing that can be annihilated. Fear of your own annihilation is a thought like all others; there is nothing of any substance to disappear. All ideas come and go and are equally irrelevant. Your ideas about yourself are the only obstacle and the origin of all suffering. What you look for and what you might find cannot be what is Real. What you are cannot be gained anew. It is only the removal of false ideas and erroneous beliefs that can reveal what you are. What you are is painting the picture of your life, this does not bind you. Learn to listen without distortion and learn to look without imagination. See that every mode of perception is subjective, and that every idea of what life is exists only in your mind. Stop attributing names and form to what is essentially nameless and formless. Investigate and discover that what is seen and heard, smelled and touched, felt and thought exists only as story in your mind and do not be attracted by any of this. See that all of this is in mind and not in reality. The world is spiritual, yet when you identify with the physical body the world becomes physical according to the concepts you hold. Yet all the while the world is spiritual. There is no conflict between regular life and the theory of non duality. Remain in regular life; let life happen with all of its worldliness and let your attention rest within. If you want to enjoy enlightenment, you can only do it before enlightenment happens! Happy-ever-after endings belong in movies. It is when daily life is imagined to be different from spiritual life that difficulties arise. Without subjective perception of difference there can be no problems. Look around you without thinking, without conceptualizing. Make no interpretations, come to no conclusions. Be in pure perception, pure seeing and pure observing. Any action arising is spontaneous and there is no choice. There is no free will and there is no destiny. Life is presenting your character, but there is no ownership of either. If life were not experiencing this exactly as it is now then life would not exist at all. There is only this, manifesting as it must. What you call your life was never yours anyway; you never owned anything. You are all of it and yet imagine yourself to be separate from it in order to own, search and achieve. Observe without thinking, without conceptualizing. Pure observing where there is nothing to see – it is this that is at the core of the I AM state. Managing desire has nothing to do with your relationships with objects of desire; it is your own misunderstanding that requires correction. Find out how the perception of objects arises in mind and do not follow thought patterns in ignorance. There is no object which is of a different nature from the subject, and as there is only the subject, how can it be seen as an object? All experience rests on the reality of objects. If you investigate you will find that objects are unreal. Realize that the end of pain does not lie in a satisfied desire; pleasure and pain are the products of misunderstanding. Intimacy is an experience and it cannot last; it is simply taking a holiday from the personal 'I' to the oneness/wholeness thought. The experience of intimacy can only happen with the backdrop of separation still in view. Do not fall into the trap of loving objects, be they people, things or actions. Living with... is suffering, when in fact there is simply living. Find out what it is to be free from the object you call 'myself' and stop compensating with desire. What you are is inert, insentient and at peace. The body is the avenue through which mind flows and you are none of this. There's nothing to fear but fear itself. 'Nothingness' is already something in consciousness. Nothing sees that which is beyond mind. It just is. If something could see 'it', there would then still be two 'there'. Mind can't go 'there'. It's beneath mind all the time. It's underneath the stories all the time. Once the ability to believe the stories is gone, it's all that's left. It's outside of time. And you 'know' 'it', but you don't know what you know, and you don't know how you know it. You are 'it' and you can't not be 'it'. You can't add to 'it', and you can't take away from 'it'. 'It' doesn't have a colour, a smell, or a sound. 'It' is what you are outside of all ideas of what you could be. Nothing knows 'it', there's nothing and nobody to know 'it', but 'it' is known. The 'I' story can't be dropped until it embraces its power. It's very simple. It's difficult only for the "I", but it's totally natural to return to what you are, to what's underneath the "I" story. Desire and the "I" are together. Desire is keeping the "I" alive. Cultivate and live in that space of desireless-ness. There is freedom in surrendering desires. When mind thinks that there is something lost, have another look. Let there be contentment with whatever is happening, in any moment. All is well, as it is, always. All arises from nothing/absolute. Let it be seen that it is simply a happening in consciousness, that there is nobody having any thought. Know that it is not 'you' having this thought. That's the belief that creates the suffering ability. When death of the 'I' happens, there's nobody there to know it. There's no such thing as an experience. The labelling is the seed of control. So there's a feeling of existence. Does that prove something ? Does that prove that existence is real, just because the feeling is being computed ? No, you don't even know that. The intellect doesn't even know that. So prior to what can be known or not known, which all ends up with being the "I don't know" category, prior to all of that, is existence even possible ? As soon as you notice you are in the story, look at what attracted your attention into the movie that is 'all about you'. What is the juice that gets you back into story ? Recognising that hook is more useful even than pulling back to observer. Find out if the juice is good enough and let it all mature so that the juice is not good enough. Then the only thing left is to go within and find out what was always there - Truth. All is well. Continue, with patience, patience, patience to place attention outside all of it. Every story is mind, let mind do its thing. Know that mind will continue to appear to do its thing but let there be no ownership. It is not possible that thoughts are belonging to "you". Never claim ownership for this creates the idea that "you" exists. You are no more than an idea. Do not claim any thought as 'yours'. From where does the I thought arise ? Who is having this original thought ? All arises from nothing/absolute. Let it be seen that it is simply a happening in consciousness, that there is nobody having any thought. Know that it is not 'you' having this thought. That's the belief that creates the suffering ability. Using the theory of Advaita where it has not been seen to be truth (e.g. "I know I am not this ego so how it manifests doesn't matter") is BS. There are many who hang out here and it has its phase. Really there is nothing to understand. Being what you really are is happening; that can not be stopped or started. What you are is beyond all of this. Nothing to work out any more perhaps; let the fragrance of what you are arise and dissolve any tendency to imagine you are other than the essence of all that IS. Go back to knowing that it is simple. The fun is in the busy-ness as long as it's fun for you. And when you see that it's just more of the same stories, all about 'me', drop it. You can observe what goes on benignly, but keep going. From the position of observer, take that last step. Who's the one observing ? Go there. Who is that ultimate, absolute observer, where 'seeing itself' arises from ? Let attention rest there. Let it be ok that nothing has happening. Let the show be over, let the movie, the story of 'I' as an individual person, be over. And see what happens. Truth will reveal itself, absolute clarity of how this matrix works, will show itself to be no more than a matrix. And somehow, a capacity to enjoy what ever is unfolding is always there. You don't have to be perfect, you don't have to have good health, you don't have to do it before your body dies, it's got nothing to do with anything : it's right now, place your attention behind any stories, any concepts. From there, freedom arises, beauty arises, love arises. But don't take my word for it, do it. And prove me wrong, I'd be delighted. I'll take on that challenge any day (laughter). Do it and find out. So blessings on all of us, who are pretending to be human.  

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  There once was a hard working, independent, Guinness drinking Irish woman. She went by the name Jackie O'Keeffe and fully believed she had a personal life directed by her own free will. In her twenties she was running in the fast lane; working and playing hard, driven by ideals and ambition. For many years she attended therapy, usually psychotherapeutic in method, where she unraveled the stories of her childhood. One Sunday afternoon, at the age of thirty, she was having lunch with friends. In an instant there was the appearance of ghosts all around the dining room. Her first response was that someone had slipped her a recreational tab – but that was not the case. This ability to see the non physical didn't go away and developed intensively over the following week. While it was totally unnerving and stimulated a fear-filled response, something within wanted to rise to the challenge to see what this was all about. Imagine standing at the service counter in your bank and when speaking with the teller an older lady appears behind her and directly asks jac to tell her daughter (the bank clerk) to split with her boyfriend ! Highly amusing and a total distraction from what was, up until then, the "real world". What was unfolding - the workings of the non physical reality - was more interesting than anything else life was offering at that time. Exactly one week from the first sighted spook, a man appeared at the end of her bed in the dead of night and said he would tell all that she wanted to know about what was happening. A long conversation followed and in the end jac believed she made a decision to let "spirit" guide her way on. Within six months jac had wrapped up her contracts as a free lance arts consultant and began to work as a ghost buster. According to divine economy, her ego was given a great bashing through this career move. For jac, it was the flakiest of all occupations, cutting through her self image and destroying any attachment to a career path. One year later ability to see chakras, auras and past lives kicked in and so her clients became the living. Her perspective of the world was changing quickly. The database of what can appear as real and seems to exist with authenticity was ever expanding and somehow unending, limitless. It was clear that beliefs were subjective mental limitations and entirely dependent on the conditioning active in any moment. The concept of surrendering personal will to divine will made sense and her work became service. Chanting and meditation as a daily practice was as essential as breathing. An intensity prevailed and it was sensed that something was pushing her on and on and on. But to what ? That was never clear to jac; there never seemed to be the rising of that question - just the appearance of much work to be done in raising consciousness in herself and others. The approach was to practice and show people how to observe their thoughts and emotions and no longer be a slave of the mind. At a Santo Dime Ceremony a great inner black vacuum stripped all from jac. It seemed to annihilate her totally. During this spiritual ceremony it became clear that existence itself was a thought. All she thought existed was simply all she thought. Existence itself was no more than thought and so she too was not real in any authentic way. All thoughts that jac existed were stripped. Fighting for her life, for any reality that was intellectually sound proved pointless. It was a violent and traumatic experience that lasted many hours. Over the following days, it was clear that all that manifests is no more than a thought, that the perceived reality attached to creation is also a thought. But she had no more than this intellectual understanding. No books, no teachers came to her and it was some five or six years later when in India that jac came upon books discussing and explaining non duality. Yet life seemed to continue, seeming unperturbed by the fact that all was just a dream rolling itself out, playing just for the sake of it. It was clear that all that could happen was without purpose and meaning, yet it appeared to be happening... in some dimension that was not after all at the core of all that is. Somehow plant medicine seemed to help and ayawaska was pursued. It became clear that the healing process of the spiritual path was unending; mind would forever present new scenarios as issues to be dealt with. All it was offering in fact was more opportunities to engage in an "all about me" thought process. The path of emotional and spiritual healing was cyclical and it spat jac out. In a vision she had understood that at some point she would have to choose between her "normal" life of marriage and service, and the total surrender to whatever was urging on the remnants of a personal jac. There was a belief running that she would get sick if she remained as a householder. What to do but follow light – and at that point the physical sun seemed to offer more light than any other source, physical or non physical. She moved alone to a campsite in the south of Spain for three months. After a brief wrapping up visit to Ireland she moved to El Hierro, the silence and writing, nature and meditation dictated her lifestyle. A Spanish friend asked her to come to India and in Amma's ashram "Amritapuri" in Kerala jac has no recollection of a six day period during her stay there. She was physically taken care of by her friend and as that period of time ended and some capacity to engage consciously with the world returned it also was directly known that there are no individuals. Both personal and divine will both have no basis in Reality. There is simply the appearance of energy moving through form and part of that energy is thought. All that is in creation moves as one mass constantly in flux, never adding or losing from the sum total of all that is. Energy is simply changing from one form to another. Somehow all of this gets named and labeled as if it comprises separate parts and then somehow, thought is believed to be the truth. Yet, there is prior to all that changes and attention can remain there. For jac there was one remaining desire, still running, that gave the idea that she existed. It was intermittent and not ultimately believed, but when it was running there certainly seemed to be a woman owning a desire. The nature of desire was yet to unfold. From Kerala to Tamil Nadu and the mountain of Arunachala. Attending satsang and finding words that would point to That which is beyond allowed the jigsaw of an intellectual understanding to draw itself together. It was clear how Born to be Free would now become a book... there was, after all, a way to point towards Truth. Speaking from truth produced silence and with great relief words again had some role to play in all of this. Staying in Tiruvannamalai, there were periods of intense spiritual practice, and extended periods of a natural silence. One day, it felt as though mind was breaking; splintering into fragments. Memory was revealed to be no more than a thought. There was no way to connect any past story with this physical body without a believed thought together with the quality of memory attached. Memories are simply believed to be true and there is no way of knowing if they ever actually happened. Maybe they never did, time itself is the great fooler... connecting dots that are not connected at all except through concepts believed to be true. The sense of needing psychiatric care passed through mind and yet somehow, suddenly there were no more personal thoughts. Thoughts are no longer believed to be true, that capacity, that neurological wiring appears to not function any more. Is that permanent or not ? Who knows, but one thing is sure, there is no one here who is bothered if the movie is believed or not. All is just passing through consciousness, benignly and gently moving through. All is manifesting as it is, it can not be any other way than how it is, but a personal "I" will believe otherwise. That is the nature of the personal "I". One year later, jac was asked to give satsang and well... somehow the show goes on without ownership of any thought, any action. No ownership does not mean no responsibility, for it is clear that there is only God, all is God or all is Nothing - as you like. Without the personal "I" there can be no ownership of anything, not even one thought is "yours". All is passing through and even the seeing of all - the labeling of what is passing though fades also. What's to be said – except that cliché – that at the end of it all, nothing ever happened ! 

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  Anonymous deliveries of flower petals are making it difficult for a gal to resist lolling about on this fragrant carpet all day ! But as all things change, it seems that the season for fresh flowers draws to a close and questions about addictive substances remain. The apparent contrast between roses and such substances are only in the realm of thought; it is simply the naming of difference that creates difference. All that can be thought has no substance in Reality whatsoever. Yet, mind can present a "but' and surely an "I" story to follow... so talking of addictive substances has a place in the appearance of all that is borne of concepts. If it makes sense to you to place attention outside of the realm of thought; leading mind to the door of prior to thought, then do so and do not be concerned about such things as substance abuse. Cut to the chase (abide in/as Absolute) at every opportunity and subsequently it is revealed that no "personal I" or "impersonal I" story is running and suffering has no currency. However, if the "personal I' story is pulling your attention and it is felt that more experiences are to be had by a personal "I", then read on. It seems that a believed thought (most often unconscious) underpinning addictions goes like this: "something outside of me can make me feel complete/happy or whole". Experiencing external phenomena continues as one tries to find what will resolve this incomplete feeling. There may even be a conscious noticing of that natural pull towards internal rest, peace, harmony, yet mind can simultaneously run the idea that the outside world is the source of "solutions". When the search for happiness continues in the outside world - substance abuse has its place. The best that substances can do is shift your attention away from persistent thoughts into some level of oblivion for a while; promising a temporary a holiday from the habit of believing thoughts. Even having a cigarette can have the association and the resulting effect of shifting mental focus. Mind works to seek its own resolution; energetically being pulled back to Source - whether desired or not. Thus mind is drawn to that break in believing the same thoughts again and again and the capacity for addiction is created. What mind is doing is finding a way to break the electromagnetic circuit created by repetitive thought in the brain. Using a mantra proves much more effective but it's not as interesting to the personal "I". It is not social, it's not a "story" for the "I" thought. Managing thoughts internally instead of through external means (substances) can break a self image and... well, that's not too attractive to the "I" who still believes that the outside world is where solutions lie. It is rare that a substance itself is addictive; generally the body does what mind instructs. Mind imagines that the body needs a cigarette but mind has told the body that this is the case. Mind uses the body for its own purposes and the body is no more than an exquisitely functioning bag of flesh and bones. Body does not get addicted but mind does. Almost all substances are not addictive in and of themselves. It is the alignment of a substance with the pain of identified thoughts coupled with the promise of a mini distraction for mind that are the ingredients of substance addiction. All sources of pleasure have the capacity to be sources of pain and sooner or later it is seen that there is a very thin line between pleasure and pain. Both are no more than concepts believed to be true, believed into your experience. Let it be seen that the effort of running a concept reveals itself as exhausting and somewhat unnatural. At this point the attraction to pleasure and the avoidance of pain are two sides of the same coin and exercising either is seen as a futile endeavor. Believing you are a separate individual will give rise to the belief that you have habits, tendencies and a personality. This can cause great suffering. Building upon this illusion, mind can shift from one intense connection to another; from cigarettes to food, alcohol to AA meetings. Let the personality be addictive – you are not your personality. What you are can not own anything, so there is no you that can have a personality either. So who is it that could have an addiction ? What's the problem with an addictive personality ? You are not your personality, you are not addicted to anything. You are not involved in any of this, but as long as you run the thought that you are your personality then the "I" has something to fix and something else to do. This will keep the "I" story going. Analysis around addiction can be explored…only to be rejected when seen as more intellectual garbage about an "I" who never existed outside of imagination anyway. So, what to do ? Go back to the second paragraph and know that whatever "I" story is running can never bring you anywhere, you are not an "I" story. You are nothing that can be named. There is no "I can" or "I can not"; there is no "I". You drink alcohol, you don't drink alcohol – this is lifestyle and nothing to do with what you really are. Observe the thoughts that erroneously present as your experience. There is nothing to fix - just observe them and stop placing so much effort into the thoughts that are "all about me". Rest in the knowing that you are beyond all of this. Let it all soften. Substances are needed to simply change an idea in mind; this is an apparent happening in consciousness. Do not be concerned with any of this; it takes an "I" to participate in such a grand illusion and you are not an "I".  

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  Self realisation, awakening and enlightenment are terms used to label the direct experience of Reality. This is not a regular experience (spiritual or otherwise) that one can have as the "I" can not experience it. Yet it is a happening within the phenomenal world. The space between two "I" thoughts offers this direct experience many times a day but while attention is focused on thoughts and they are taken to be real, well... then the "I" movie is still more potent than the pull towards Truth. Seeing through the matrix; realising that your perception of reality entirely hinges upon the belief that you exist as a separate individual, is for some a eureka moment but for others it goes un-noticed. In the latter case, some time (usually years) pass until it is recognised that thoughts are no longer believed. For some, a deep understanding follows; the intricacies of how creation can be taken as real is revealed. It is then that sentences from advaita such as "nothing ever happened' make most sense. There is clear knowing of what is illusion and a direct knowing of what is beyond mind. Advaita texts state that the stabilisation of self realisation leads to the "state" of liberation. While the seeing through of the "I" thought is the first step towards liberation; it does not automatically follow that self realisation leads to liberation in every case. From what jac has seen while travelling in the west in 2009 it seems in western cultures self realisation is taken to be the end of the line; the show is over. To a certain point this is so, yet self realisation is not liberation…there is more. What can change will continue to change against the unmoving background. To this end, the sense of the "I" can again arise and desires may influence action or in some cases the pull towards total annihilation of the wandering mind continues until liberation. Useful terms to denote the difference can be found in Indian culture; the guru is self realised and the satguru is liberated. Manifesting as the satguru, the Absolute Seer has nothing to see. No ideas come to mind at all. Action taken is never guided by a concept. There is no sense of needing anything - ever. Liberation is the changeless state with no will, no ideas, no imagination and no doubt. All traces of "I am" can disappear, leaving no trace of individuality. What remains is consciousness experiencing consciousness. The "I am" can come and go spontaneously as long as the body functions, but it is given no importance. This level of functioning of "I am" is no more than an aid to existence. The self realised can say "I am That" and the liberated have realised the unreality of "I am".  

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Télécharger ce satsang :   Restez simplement à l'intérieur. Il n'y a rien à faire, il n'y a rien à obtenir. Faire et obtenir vont se produire de toute façon, ne vous tracassez pas. Vous n'avez rien à obtenir, vous n'avez besoin de rien. Ce que vous êtes est si complet et total et pur et au-delà de ce que le mental peut imaginer. Mais vous le savez déjà, vous le savez déjà. Laissez votre attention reposer là et la vie continuera comme avant. Il ne s'agit pas du monde extérieur changeant et qui s'organise de lui-même, pas du tout, mais de l'endroit où vous placez votre attention. Tant que vous n'aurez pas la croyance que le monde extérieur peut encore vous apporter quelque chose votre attention reposera automatiquement dans sont état naturel. Si vous croyez que le monde extérieur peut encore vous apporter quelque chose, alors vous ferez quelque chose. Vous devez porter votre attention en arrière où tout est naturellement au repos. Où le mental n'est pas engagé dans les pensées, les désirs, les croyances, les concepts, ne pas vous embarrasser avec quelque chose de juteux. Ne vous encombrez pas avec cela. Vous n'avez pas à inventer des choses intéressantes pour que votre vie ait un sens, il n'y a aucun but. Il est bien que votre vie n'ait aucun but, il n'y a aucun but. Il n'y a pas besoin d'être ambitieux, pas besoin d'avoir des objectifs, il y a un temps et un lieu pour cela. Mais si vous êtes venu au satsang vu avez certainement vu cela. Chaque objectif amènera seulement au suivant, chaque objectif sera réalisé un moment et alors et alors quoi ? Le suivant s'il vous plaît et le spectacle continue. Voyez a travers cela voyez à travers cela. Pour la plupart des gens quand vous vous réveillez le matin, cela peut prendre quelques secondes ou une demi minute " Mais oui, nous sommes samedi, oh mon dieu je dois emmener les enfants à ... la gymnastique". Vous voyez, cet espace avant "nous sommes tel jour et je dois faire cela", cet espace est ce dont je vous parle, où rien ne se passe et c'est simplement délicieux. Donc si vous n'allez pas à l'extérieur dans des pensées telles que "je dois", "je n'aime pas" ou "je veux" si vous n'allez pas à l'extérieur c'est bien, c'est bien. C'est bien, tout ce qui apparaît dans le monde est bien. Mais si vous passez votre vie à faire courir vos pensées, si vous passez votre vie à penser "je veux ceci", "cela devrait être comme cela" ou " je veux que mon mal de tête s'en aille" aussi simple que cela "j'aimerai vivre dans un autre climat" alors votre mental va ressasser tout ce à quoi vous vous attacherez. Il y a une infinité de pensées ici mais si vous ne vous y attachez pas tout est fini, tout est fini et c'est bien. Si vous voulez des feux d'artifice et des expériences intenses alors vous pouvez jouer ainsi pour toujours. Après cette expérience vous revoilà de nouveau. Aucune expérience ne pourra vous satisfaire, elle ne peut pas le faire, elle ne peut pas. Comment quelque chose pourrait il vous donner à vous même, comment pourrait il y avoir la rencontre avec qui vous êtes, pensez-y. Vous n'êtes pas là au dehors vous cherchant vous-même, nous jouons ce jeu comme si c'était au dehors, vous comprenez. Ce que vous cherchez se trouve à l'endroit même d'où vous regardez. C'est aussi simple que cela, réellement c'est aussi simple que cela. Cela se complique car l'extériorisation est tellement enracinée que le retour demande une déconnexion, l'effondrement des croyances, une discipline spirituelle et une pratique de la méditation pour que le mental reste à l'intérieur. Eh bien oui il y a un peu de travail à faire, il y a un peu de travail à faire. Cela fonctionne comme cela pour certains et c'est le chemin progressif, cela fonctionne comme cela pour certains. Très bien, c'est le jeu et le non faire. Cela va s'arrêter mais pas en vous trouvant, cela va s'arrêter en voyant que c'était une totale distraction mais aussi une totale perte de temps. Le chemin spirituel dans son ensemble est une perte de temps. Vous ne pouvez pas vous trouver, comprenez vous, comment pourriez-vous vous trouver vous n'êtes pas caché à vous même. Vous êtes derrière l'endroit d'où vous regardez. Vous ne pouvez pas célébrer tous vos retours à la maison. Vous êtes là tout le temps, en arrière, assis silencieusement. Rien ne se passe, comme dans le sommeil profond, rien ne se passe. Alors la recherche spirituelle va disparaître c'est une activité qui se passe, c'est simplement un autre ensemble d'expériences pour le "je" et si ces expériences sont la seule étape devant vous alors franchissez la. Mais vous devrez jeter cela aussi vous devrez voir à travers chaque technique spirituelle et chaque discipline à un certain point. Si vous vous attachez à l'idée que la méditation n'est plus utile mais que votre mental fait toujours des expériences alors je vous conseille de continuer à méditer avant que votre mental ne soit saoul. Il y a du bon sens ici (rires). A un certain point même la recherche du soi, même l'étape finale de demander "qui suis-je" ou d'aller derrière l'observateur même cette étape finale sera reconnue comme créant le "je". Comme quelque chose sort pour revenir, peu importe votre pratique spirituelle quelque chose s'extériorise pour revenir, la pratique spirituelle est ce mouvement de retour seulement parce que vous êtes sorti. Arrêtez de sortir. Pour certaines personnes cette capacité de sortir, vous comprenez ce que je veux dire par sortir - se relier à une pensée - pour certaines personnes il y a ce réveil instantané sans effort, sans rien. Mais je vais vous dire si cela avait du vous arriver vous ne seriez pas assis en satsang et il est sur que cela serait déjà arrivé. Cela serait arrivé s'il fallait qu'il en soit ainsi ou cela arrivera et peu importe que vous soyez ici ou non. Mais vouloir que cela arrive ah! oubliez le. C'est un "je" qui s'extériorise, qui veut tout, c'est un "je" qui s'extériorise. C'est un processus de pensées qui suit le "je", qui crée le "je" et "je" veux et blablabla, nous y revoilà de nouveau. Ainsi même l'étape intermédiaire entre l'observateur et ce que vous êtes, en pointant le mental ici, même cette étape sera de trop. Seulement quand le mental sera suffisamment mur pour l'obtenir, seulement quand il sera prêt pour réellement oh! quand c'est vu de manière organique. Ne vous attachez pas a un concept spirituel où vous flotteriez là au dehors "Mais oui je peux le faire oh! je n'ai rien du tout à faire", ne vous accrochez à rien cela doit arriver organiquement. Utilisez le pointeur qui vous parait approprié à ce moment là utilisez ce qui a du sens pour vous prenez la route la plus courte, par tous les moyens, prenez la route la plus courte, ne perdez pas de temps. Mais pour sauter les étapes il faut de l'expérience et cela ne fonctionnera pas, cela ne fonctionnera pas. L'honnêteté personnelle est très utile réellement l'honnêteté personnelle est très utile. Il se passe quelque chose dans la vision de ce que vous n'êtes pas, vous devez voir ce que vous n'êtes pas pour que la vision de ce que vous êtes soit claire. Finalement toute la pratique spirituelle montrera ce qu'elle est "bien sur je ne suis pas cela, je ne peux pas être celui qui cherche quelque chose ou qui va obtenir quelque chose, c'est simplement le "je" qui s'extériorise recherchant quelque chose d'autre", c'est plus fin plus sophistiqué mais toujours une activité du "je". Pour certain la pratique spirituelle continuera après l'éveil mais il ne s'agit pas d'obtenir quelque chose c'est simplement ce que la forme fait, c'est un style de vie qui se produit. Il n'y a rien à gagner de cette manière et si cela s'arrête il n'y a rien à perdre. Il semble que ce soit la fin de ceci. (Rires)   Ecouter ce satsang : Boston, USA, April 23rd, 2010

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Le bonheur (Nés pour être libres - Chapitre 1)  Qu'est-ce qui vous rend heureux ? Goûtez-vous au bonheur par petites touches ou vivez-vous des plages de bonheur continu ? Le bonheur est-il une promesse là-bas dans le futur, que vous croyez pouvoir atteindre un jour éventuellement ? Avez-vous une idée en tête qui serait votre "recette" d'accès au bonheur ? Et lorsque vous la réaliserez, serez-vous réellement heureux et surtout, est-ce que cela durera ? Ce bonheur découle-t-il de la découverte du bon partenaire ou du parfait amant ou encore de la maison ou du travail de vos rêves ? Si vous croyez que le bonheur vous attend dans le futur, alors soyez surs qu'il ne sera jamais au rendez-vous. Préparez vous à attendre longtemps, car c'est simplement une idée dans votre tête qui garde le bonheur à distance. Le bonheur est une expérience directe émanant de votre nature même. Son origine est complètement hors d'atteinte du mental. Votre mental n'a pas la capacité d'embrasser, d'appréhender ou d'interpréter un bonheur réel et permanent. Une expérience de bien-être ou de plaisir passager n'est pas le bonheur. Le bonheur, accessible à tous, est de nature permanente, il est constant et ne peut être perturbé. Puisque vous êtes capable de dire que vous n'avez jamais été heureux dans votre vie, c'est que vous savez ce qu'est le bonheur, pour afrmer ne pas le ressentir maintenant. Contrairement à d'autres méthodes ou techniques, il vous est proposé ici un chemin simple vers la compréhension de ce qu'est ce dernier. Les clés d'accès à une vie de liberté et de joie absolue, sont présentement dans vos mains. Chérissez-vous l'idée que vous ne méritez pas d'être heureux ? Certaines personnes s'interdisent le bonheur sous prétexte qu'il existe trop de soufrance dans le monde. D'autres croient qu'il est juste de se punir pour des actes passés. Peut-être croyez-vous que le bonheur est pour les autres, mais pas pour vous. Tous ces raisonnements sont des constructions du mental humain qui ne servent qu'à tenir le bonheur à distance. Réaliser des objectifs personnels et professionnels apporte une satisfaction relative. Certaines personnes semblent tout avoir : un partenaire merveilleux, un style de vie attirant, une richesse matérielle etc. Toutefois lorsque les choses devien- nent plus familières, elles sont de moins en moins attractives. Tout nouvel ajout dans une vie apporte une distraction pour un temps, mais la phase de nouveauté associée à chaque réalisation personnelle ou professionnelle touche à sa fin tôt ou tard. Lorsque l'on prend conscience de ce processus, il devient clair que se donner un autre objectif nous conduirait au même endroit - un endroit d'insatisfaction intérieure et de vide. La recherche du bonheur continue. Il n'existe pas, dans notre monde moderne, de modèle vraiment accessible d'un bonheur réel et permanent. En cette époque où le développement économique est principalement commercial, la soif naturelle de l'homme pour le bonheur est intelligemment exploitée par le commerce à ses propres fns. Le mental moderne sophistiqué a créé un concept du bonheur, et il est devenu quelque chose que chacun d'entre nous doit s'eforcer d'atteindre. Beaucoup croient que quitter leur position sociale signiferait perdre toutes chances d'accès d'y accéder. Que deviendraient ceux qui croient que quitter cette position sociale équivaut à ne pas être capable d'assumer et donc d'être "un raté" ? Voilà une façon de défnir un jeu de la vie, et vous pouvez choisir de jouer de cette manière. Il existe de nombreuses façons de jouer sa vie. Prenez un moment pour voir si vous voulez écrire votre script vous- même ou si vous préférez que la société ou toute autre infuence extérieure le fasse pour vous ? C'est votre choix. Que vous l'exerciez ou non, reconnaissez au moins que le choix est vôtre. Qu'est donc le bonheur pour vous ? Est-ce le plaisir que vous ressentez lorsque vous partez en vacances, que vous jouez avec vos enfants, que vous jardinez, jouez au golf ou prenez un verre avec vos amis en fn de semaine ? Si vous avez besoin de conditions extérieures pour accéder au bonheur, il ne s'agit pas réellement du bonheur. Les circonstances diverses qui vous permettent de ressentir un bien-être en relâchant les pressions du travail, lorsque vous n'êtes plus dans votre mental et que vous commencez à vous détendre sous l'effet de l'alcool, ou en jouant avec vos enfants, ces circonstances ne peuvent pas par nature induire un véritable bonheur. Ces moments hors de l'expérience quotidienne apportent une distraction de qualité, et sont source de plaisir et de relaxation, mais le bonheur est tout autre. Par exemple, vous pouvez croire que vous seriez heureux, si vous aviez une maison près de la mer. Cette croyance peut se transformer en désir et vous pouvez vous concentrer sur ce but. Lorsque vous l'avez atteint et que vous avez donc cette maison près de la mer, le désir naturellement s'évanouit et permet qu'une tranquillité naturelle s'installe en vous. Vous pouvez même croire que vous êtes heureux maintenant que ce désir est exaucé. Toutefois ce bonheur est de courte durée. Pourquoi ? Il n'est pas dans la nature, les propriétés et caractéristiques d'une maison près de la mer de procurer du bonheur à ses habitants. Une maison, peu importe où elle est située, n'a pas cette capacité. Si c'était le cas, cela impliquerait que tout le monde éprouve la même sensation en possédant le même objet. Or certains vont trouver, par exemple, que cette propriété réveille des sensations de solitude et d'isolement. La qualité du bonheur ne réside pas dans la nature d'un objet. Si la maison près de la mer n'est pas responsable de votre bonheur, d'où vient ce sentiment de bonheur que vous ressentez lorsque vous obtenez l'objet convoité ? Le bonheur émane de l'intérieur. C'est une qualité innée de votre être. Les pensées vous distraient et vous empêchent de demeurer consciemment dans votre vraie nature et de l'apprécier. Les pensées créent tous les désirs et les désirs peuvent être très voraces. Votre mental peut vous convaincre qu'atteindre tel objet de désir vous rendra heureux. La vérité est que dès que le mental est calme, un sentiment naturel de joie s'éveille en vous. Votre nature véritable est sans cause et vivre un bonheur sans raison aucune, est votre état naturel. Lorsqu'un désir est satisfait, il disparaît, et le mental est au calme pour un moment. L'absence de désir, l'absence de pensées permettent d'expérimenter ce qui est "au-dedans". Un mental non géré fournira un autre désir très rapidement, ce qui vous convaincra alors, de la possibilité de raviver l'état de bien-être qui s'estompait, en accèdant à un autre détail qui amènera de nouveau la perfection ! La résolution des désirs permet ce bonheur temporaire. Pourtant, à l'intérieur de cet état de joie, il y a un moment de bonheur sans cause. Le mental toutefois reprendra le dessus très rapidement et trouvera une cause objective et le cycle d'anticipation recommencera. Gérer les désirs et le mental, le mental étant la source des désirs, ofre la possibilité de se poser et d'apprécier la joie innée, toujours présente. Le bonheur est naturel et n'a guère besoin de désirs, de pensées, d'émotions, d'eforts, d'objectifs à atteindre ou de financements ! La sensation profonde de bonheur ne change pas selon les circonstances, elle n'est pas dépendante de la vie humaine extérieure. Elle est présente en nous tous, endormie peut- être, mais naturelle et inhérente à la force humaine. Le bonheur ne dépend pas des événements extérieurs, et dire que vous étiez heureux jusqu'au décès de votre femme ou de votre mari, ce n'est pas comprendre le bonheur. Ce n'est pas le bonheur car il ne peut être donné ou retiré par quoi que ce soit que la vie vous apporte. Il est interne, il est constant, il est tranquille, calme et complet, il ne recherche rien, il est absolu, il est. Votre accès à lui, réside dans votre capacité à être calme, à vous détendre et à stopper votre implication dans les pensées. Ainsi la seule chose qui puisse vous empêcher de goûter au bonheur, c'est vous. Continuer à rechercher dehors ce qui est déjà présent au-dedans, n'est qu'un moyen de vous détourner du regard intérieur. Il y a une faille fondamentale dans la recherche du bonheur, il ne pourra jamais être atteint de l'extérieur et donc le poursuivre est en tout point futile. L'idée même d'une quête du bonheur n'a aucun sens. C'est un rythme naturel essentiel et partir à sa recherche au travers du mental et des désirs, ne peut jamais aboutir. Toutes les circonstances extérieures, activités, possessions, et événements n'ont qu'un but : garder le mental occupé. Le bonheur est en dehors du domaine du mental, en dehors de son fonctionnement et de ses capacités. Par contre il dépend de l'attention que vous placez sur votre nature intérieure. Ressentir et expérimenter une joie réelle, une joie sans cause, demande l'abandon de l'intérêt que vous accordez à vos pensées. Arrivés à ce point où vous comprenez que ni les objets physiques, ni les personnes, ni les situations ne peuvent vous rendre heureux, diverses possibilités s'ofrent à vous. Beaucoup vont accroître la pression sur leurs relations, espérant de celles-ci plus qu'elles ne peuvent donner. Certains chercheront un autre partenaire qui puisse leur ofrir une distraction sexuelle plus excitante. Ces options contiennent leurs propres conséquences. D'autres parviendront en cet espace étiqueté "dépression" et présenté comme une désillusion à l'égard de la vie. L'absurdité de toute chose est devenue évidente. Lorsque plus rien n'est satisfaisant, l'envie de vivre s'étiole. En réalité c'est un moment qu'il faudrait célébrer, car la recherche de sens peut maintenant commencer. Vous êtes face à un choix, vous pouvez regarder le plus clairement et honnêtement possible la vie, et afronter les questions difciles du but et du sens de votre vie. Vous pouvez pousser plus loin et vous demander qui, ou ce que vous êtes. Vous pouvez ainsi commencer à ressentir et répondre au désir ardent de connaître la vérité. Cela implique prendre un risque, et entrer dans un territoire inconnu qui apportera des changements. La seule autre option, c'est de continuer comme auparavant : accepter que le monde ne soit pas satisfaisant et lorsque la soufrance émotionnelle deviendra intolérable, la réponse de la société à cet intense désir naturel de compréhension, de connaissance spirituelle et de bonheur, c'est l'alcool, les drogues et les médicaments. Lorsque vous parvenez à ce point, où vous sentez qu'il doit y avoir plus qu'il n'y paraît, dans la vie et en vous-même, c'est en réalité une ouverture et non un cul-de-sac. Le choix de franchir ce passage doit se faire en toute conscience. Ce n'est pas un terrier dans lequel vous pouvez passer la tête avant de décider d'entrer ou non. Ce choix est simple : prendre un risque ou continuer tel quel, en jouant la carte de la sécurité. Ce livre contient de nombreuses indications pour vous aider à trouver, puis à demeurer, dans cette partie plus profonde de vous-même. Si vous choisissez de les suivre, des changements réels et multiples vont se produire, des changements intérieurs principalement, qui entraineront également des changements extérieurs dans votre vie. Préparez-vous à laisser les conséquences se dérouler d'elles- mêmes. Tout se passe toujours au mieux pour le bien de tous, lorsque vous empruntez le chemin de la compréhension de la vérité. Il en est toujours ainsi. Si vous êtes simplement curieux, votre mental restera dominant et prendra le matériel présenté ici, comme un exercice intellectuel ou académique, qui perdra alors tout son potentiel. Êtes-vous de ceux qui aiment traiter et analyser l'information dès qu'elle est portée à votre attention ? Cette méthode conduit-elle généralement à une compréhension ? Ce peut être un système efcace en soi, mais nombreux sont ceux qui appréhendent de nouvelles idées de cette façon et ne font jamais le pas vers la mise en pratique de ces idées. Le mental aime la sensation que procure la compréhension d'idées - les acceptant ou les rejetant comme il le ressent - et il en est momentanément satisfait. C'est la nature du mental de douter, donc des doutes sur le matériel proposé ici ne manqueront pas de survenir, et le cycle recommencera, car l'intellect recherchera d'autres stimuli pour obtenir une nouvelle satisfaction. Pendant tout ce processus, le mental est maître. Au moment de la pause naturelle du cerveau, avant l'arrivée des doutes, la plupart ne mettent pas le mental de côté et n'essayent pas de suivre les indications proposées. La pratique spirituelle implique d'ignorer "activement" le mental, initialement c'est un faire, une action, une pratique en dehors du cadre normal de ce dernier. Attendez-vous à rencontrer de la résistance. "Pratiquer" ici signife détendre et relâcher le mental, avec toute son habileté, ses concepts, qui sont de peu d'utilité dans le cadre spirituel. Pour commencer avez-vous envisagé qu'un endroit en vous puisse reconnaître le bonheur ? Si vous savez ce que le bonheur n'est pas, vous devez savoir ce qu'il est. Tout le monde a la sensation que la capacité à ressentir le bonheur est à l'intérieur de soi-même, et certains l'ont expérimenté. Ce chemin vers la vérité conduit vers le bonheur et vers bien plus encore. Il y a beaucoup à découvrir au-delà du mental, ne vous limitez pas au désir d'être heureux, mais regardez où cette route peut conduire. Ce livre vous invite essentiellement à explorer qui vous êtes au-delà du mental, au-delà de l'identité plaquée sur vous par la famille et la société mais aussi par vous-même. Qui êtes-vous lorsque vous exposez à vous-même vos parties les plus profondes, les plus secrètes ? Qui êtes-vous lorsque vous allez au-delà des parties les plus sombres et les plus glauques ? Soyez complètement honnête avec vous-même ! Peut-être que derrière tous ces replis, réside en vous une bonté, un calme et une nature paisible ? Examinons ce que vous trouvez. Tout ceci vous mène à un endroit au-delà du mental, soyez donc prêt à réaliser que vous n'êtes pas vos pensées. Vous avez des pensées – on en estime le nombre à 90 000 par jour – mais elles ne sont pas vous, et ne vous définissent en rien. Voyons ce que vous êtes vraiment lorsque vous efeuillez toutes vos expériences, vos soufrances et toutes les mémoires qui peuvent être hyperactives, alors qu'elles appartiennent au passé, où elles pourraient demeurer paisibles et ignorées. Les expériences sont pertinentes au moment où elles se produisent, elles nous ont conduit à ce point, mais c'est bien là toute leur valeur. Ne les traînez pas avec vous comme un "doudou", mais tirez-en le meilleur et soyez présent à qui vous êtes en cet instant. Votre mental utilisera n'importe quel élément de votre vie pour attirer votre attention et vous éloigner du moment présent. Le mental n'exerce aucun contrôle de qualité, il jettera des histoires et des sensations du passé ou d'un futur imaginé pour vous empêcher de diriger votre attention ailleurs. Le mental présente constamment le passé ou le futur comme présent. En empruntant cette route intérieure, explorant les questions de qui vous êtes et ce que vous faites sur cette planète, votre mental se retrouve très vite en dehors de cette profondeur, et fera de très gros eforts pour vous distraire et vous ramener à ce qu'il appelle "la vie réelle". Je vous l'afrme votre mental n'a aucune idée de ce qu'est l'ultime réalité, le mental est un outil pour vous aider à fonctionner dans ce monde, et c'est son unique fonction. Les questions que vous pouvez vous poser, qui se situent 24 au-delà du vécu quotidien, de la science ou de la philosophie, peuvent toutes trouver réponse en vous. Oui, toutes, mais cela demande de rejeter les pensées et concepts auxquels vous pouvez être attaché. Si vous êtes partant, alors allons-y ! Acheter "Nés pour être libres" sur Amazon FR

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(Article écrit en France pour la revue 3ème Millenaire, octobre 2011) L'histoire de "moi - tout tourne autour de moi" peut devenir très douloureuse. Si vous en êtes au point où vous en avez vraiment assez de parler de "ma vie, mes croyances, mes opinions, mes possessions, mon argent, mon style de vie...", alors peut-être que la futilité de ces histoires sans fin et répétitives commence à apparaître. Observez et voyez si vous pouvez reconnaître que toutes ces histoires sur "moi" sont simplement une tentative de défendre qui vous PENSEZ être. Sans toutes ces histoires auxquelles vous adhérez, vous pourriez trouver que vous n'êtes pas qui vous pensez être. Le "je" personnel ne peut jamais être satisfait, car il est fondamentalement inauthentique. Sa nature est faite de désirs. Il n'y a pas de "je" personnel qui soit constant et immuable. Il ne connaît pas la tranquillité et passe du plaisir à la souffrance en réponse directe aux sens. Le "je" personnel est une idée insatiable qui se protège constamment et recherche l'acceptation et l'amour. Ce cycle sans fin est sans résolution. On peut simplement le reconnaître comme un jeu futile et l'abandonner. Laissez se dissiper l'histoire de "tout à propos de moi". À cet instant, vous réaliserez qu'il existe quelque chose qui observe le jeu de celui qui veut que tout tourne autour de lui. Celui qui voit le "je" personnel affamé n'a pas besoin que le monde tourne autour de lui. Le "je" impersonnel a la connaissance que tout ce qui arrive est sans impact direct sur qui vous êtes. Dit autrement : le "je" impersonnel ne prend pas les choses personnellement. Si votre point de référence est passé du "je" personnel au "je" impersonnel, les réactions émotionnelles se seront grandement atténuées, la recherche de l'amour et de l'attention sera bien effacée et le jugement d'autrui largement apaisé. Sans aucun doute, le "je" impersonnel est un point de référence à partir duquel vous pouvez fonctionner avec beaucoup moins de souffrance. Une sensation d'être moins absorbée par le soi se présente également. De plus en plus vous remarquerez que lorsque le "je" personnel apparaît, un drame s'ensuit, car le "je" personnel cherche en permanence l'attention. Nombreux sont ceux qui ont trouvé que le retrait de l'attention du "je" personnel vers le "je" impersonnel est une pratique spirituelle utile. Pour certains, le mental est plus calme et pour tous un contentement intérieur commence à se développer. Ceci est la conséquence naturelle du retrait de l'attention de qui vous pensez être. Mais pourquoi entraîner votre mental à fonctionner du point de vue de l'impersonnel ? De toute évidence, il existe moins de souffrance lorsqu'il est compris que les événements ne tournent pas autour de vous. Toutefois, il existe une contradiction dans cette pratique. Il est impossible de s'établir dans la position de l'impersonnel lorsque la croyance que vous êtes un individu séparé est encore active. Elle sera ressentie comme un déclencheur interne qui réactive le "je" personnel. Alors qu'il semble évident de chercher à éviter la souffrance, donc de déplacer votre perspective vers l'impersonnel, quelque chose à l'intérieur continue à ne pas être en paix. Les deux points de vue : personnel et impersonnel ne sont que des astuces du mental dans sa poursuite à faire de la vie une expérience moins douloureuse. Que faire donc ? Ce que vous êtes se trouve avant et au-delà des jeux du mental. Alors que vous pensez être un individu, sachez que cette idée de séparation n'est rien de plus qu'une pensée qui, une fois adoptée, devient une réalité subjective. Ce que vous êtes ne connaît rien du personnel ou de l'impersonnel, ne connaît rien des pratiques spirituelles, ni de l'éveil. Vous n'êtes pas qui vous pensez être et le mental ne peut concevoir ce que vous êtes réellement. Le mental n'a pas été conçu pour connaître votre identité véritable. Le mental est une boîte à outils qui permet à la manifestation d'apparaître comme réelle. Il imagine, croit ou ne croit pas selon ce qui se passe. Qui vous êtes n'est pas du tout concerné. En réalité, qui vous êtes n'a pas la capacité d'imaginer quoi que ce soit. Qui vous êtes ne connaît rien de qui vous pensez être. Les mensonges offerts par le mental ne sont rien d'autre qu'un écran de fumée, un mouvement apparent qui a la capacité au sein de lui-même d'aimer ou de ne pas aimer ce qu'il a créé. Ne vous inquiétez de rien de tout cela, car rien n'est à changer ou à arranger ici. Toutefois, l'apparence de la manifestation semblera se poursuivre, car le mental joue un rôle de contrôle. C'est le mental qui essaye de contrôler le mental, qui essaye de minimiser la souffrance, et essaye de se détruire lui-même en imaginant que sans lui il serait plus heureux. Voyez le jeu de la vie pour ce qu'il est. Ce que vous êtes est au-delà.  

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Download those quotes :   Il n'existe pas d'objet qui soit de nature différente du sujet, comme il n'y a que le sujet, comment peut-il être vu en tant qu'objet ? Toute expérience réside dans la réalité des objets. Si vous l'examinez, vous verrez que les objets ne sont pas réels. Observez que chaque mode de perception est subjectif, et que chaque idée concernant la vie n'existe que dans votre mental. Arrêtez de donner des noms et des formes à ce qui, en essence, est sans nom et sans forme. Vos idées sur vous sont le seul obstacle et l'origine de toutes les souffrances. Arrêtez de vous engager dans les pensées et ne faites pas du désengagement des pensées quelque chose à faire ! Asseyez-vous tranquillement, restez calme et ne vous impliquez pas dans les pensées, laissez-les passer simplement sans leur porter d'intérêt. Ne cherchez pas le Soi, ce serait comme si votre œil cherchait à voir votre rétine. Vous êtes le Soi. Observez sans penser, sans conceptualiser. La pure observation où il n'y a rien à voir – c'est ce qui est au cœur de l'état du JE SUIS. Le monde est spirituel, pourtant lorsque vous vous identifiez avec le corps physique, le monde devient physique suivant les concepts auxquels vous adhérez. Cependant, durant tout ce temps, le monde est spirituel. Sans la projection du mental, le monde ne peut pas exister. Le monde qui apparaît dans vos rêves la nuit est tout aussi irréel que le monde qui apparaît lorsque vous êtes éveillé. Il n'y a aucune différence. L'intimité est une expérience et elle ne peut pas durer ; c'est seulement prendre congé du "je" personnel pour la pensée d'unité/de totalité. L'expérience d'intimité ne peut seulement se produire qu'avec la séparation encore en vue dans l'arrière-plan. Rien ne se passe ni dans l'état de veille et ni dans celui du rêve, puisque la substance de ces deux états est la conscience. L'idée que vous êtes réel n'est qu'une pensée dans la conscience. Le monde phénoménal n'est rien d'autre que le jeu de la conscience qui essaye de contrôler, de se faire comprendre et de se faire connaître à elle-même. Mieux vaut laisser ce jeu se poursuivre, sans s'identifier à aucun aspect. La création n'est qu'une apparence momentanée dans la conscience. C'est le jeu de la pensée en tant que mémoire qui vous fait croire qu'elle se poursuit au fil du temps. Gérer les désirs ne tourne pas autour de votre relation avec les objets des désirs ; c'est votre propre incompréhension qui exige une correction. Découvrez comment la perception des objets survient dans le mental et ne suivez pas aveuglément les schémas des pensées. Si vous pouvez expérimenter la présence, vous ne pouvez pas l'être. Si vous pouvez expérimenter l'êtreté, vous ne pouvez pas l'être. Tout ce qui peut être identifié, vous ne pouvez pas l'être. Il n'y a pas de conflit entre la vie ordinaire et la théorie de la non-dualité. Restez dans la vie ordinaire ; laissez la vie se dérouler avec toutes ses mondanités et laisser l'attention se reposer "à l'intérieur". Le monde ne peut pas exister indépendamment de votre mental, alors comment le monde pourrait-il être autre que mental ? Il n'y a rien d'extérieur à Cela. Laissez tomber naturellement la pensée de choses "extérieures". L'ego manifeste une grande peur à l'idée de son propre anéantissement, mais lorsque l'ego n'est pas le centre d'attention, où est-il ? Qu'est-il ? C'est seulement une idée, il n'existe donc rien qui puisse être anéanti. Rien ne vous arrive en réalité à moins de vouloir croire que c'est le cas. Examinez et découvrez que ce qui est vu et entendu, senti et touché, ressenti et pensé existe seulement en tant qu'histoires dans votre mental et ne soyez attirés par aucune d'elles. Voyez que tout cela est mental et n'est aucunement la réalité. La recherche de la vérité ne se termine pas par la découverte de celle-ci dans le monde phénoménal : rien de nouveau n'est acquis dans la réalisation du Soi. Réalisez que la fin de la douleur ne dépend pas d'un désir satisfait ; le plaisir et la douleur sont les résultats de malentendus. Tout vient de l'Absolu, demeure en tant qu'Absolu, et se fond de nouveau dans l'Absolu. Le bonheur est une expérience directe émanant de votre nature profonde. Regardez autour de vous sans penser, sans conceptualiser. N'interprétez rien, n'en venez à aucune conclusion. Soyez dans la pure perception, la pure vision et la pure observation. Toute action qui survient est spontanée, il n'y a aucun choix. Ce que vous recherchez et ce que vous pourriez trouver ne peut pas être ce qui est Réel. Apprenez à écouter sans déformer et apprenez à regarder sans imaginer. La liberté que vous recherchez se trouve précisément là, d'où vous regardez. Ce que vous êtes peint l'image de votre vie, cela ne vous attache en rien. Demeurer dans votre état naturel ne requiert ni mouvement, ni action de votre part. Si vous voulez profiter de l'éveil, vous pouvez le faire uniquement avant que l'éveil ne se produise ! Les fins de contes de fées n'existent que dans les films. L'attraction vers la Vérité a son origine dans la manifestation, pas dans la grâce. Le confort recherché par le mental dans l'idée que "la grâce vous rappelle à la maison" doit être abandonné. Soyez tranquille, silencieux et patient. Il n'y a que vous. Comment peut-il y avoir une distance entre vous et vous ? Les pensées apparaissent et disparaissent d'elles-mêmes. Il n'y a pas d'appropriation à revendiquer, car il n'y a pas de propriétaire. Ne tombez pas dans le piège d'objets aimants, que ce soient des personnes, des choses ou des actions. Vivre avec... est souffrance, alors qu'en fait, il n'y a simplement que vivre. Découvrez ce qu'est être libre de l'objet que vous appelez "moi-même" et arrêtez de compenser par les désirs. Sans le mouvement de la pensée, il n'y a pas de monde phénoménal. Quand on imagine que la vie ordinaire est différente de la vie spirituelle c'est alors que les difficultés apparaissent. Sans perception subjective de différence, il ne peut exister de problème. Demeurez à la source de la prochaine pensée. C'est tout. Dans la neutralité sans effort de votre état naturel, tous les doutes, les craintes et les angoisses disparaissent : ils ne reviennent que pour vous servir. Laissez votre attention sur ce qui se passe, et non sur la peur du comment cela pourrait vous affecter. Détendez-vous. Reposer l'activité mentale désarme l'identification brute. Il n'y a pas de "comment" arrêter de penser. Cessez simplement d'être impliqué dans les histoires de vos pensées. Vous n'avez aucun voyage à faire, aucune transformation à réaliser de l'égo vers le Soi, cela implique deux et ce n'est donc encore qu'une autre pensée. Tout ce qui se présente dans la manifestation a été créé par vous, et sera détruit par vous, en transcendant le mental. Le mental et le monde, tous deux apparaissent et retournent à la Réalité immuable. Lorsqu'il n'y a aucune idée sur ce qu'est le silence ou ce qu'il n'est pas, le silence est alors présent. Il ne s'agit pourtant pas d'un événement : il est tout simplement. Laissez votre mental être dans un chaos total. Le niveau d'activité mentale n'a pas de signification. Ne perdez pas votre attention dans l'histoire d'aucune pensée et les pensées se calmeront. Vous êtes Cela qui regarde tout. A tout moment, soit vous observez sans effort, soit vous adhérez à vos pensées. La non-dualité est au mieux considérée comme une disposition de l'esprit. Elle n'est pas appropriée pour une application dans les affaires du monde, et la sagesse pour faire face à ces questions doit donc être développée de manière indépendante. Ce que vous appelez votre vie n'a jamais été la vôtre de toute façon ; vous n'avez jamais rien possédé. Vous êtes la totalité et pourtant vous vous imaginez être séparé d'elle dans le but de posséder, de chercher et d'atteindre. Laissez votre mental se diriger vers l'intérieur. Laissez votre attention se reposer calmement dans son état naturel. Il n'y a ni libre arbitre, ni destinée. La vie présente votre personnage, mais il n'y a pas non plus d'appropriation. Si la vie n'expérimentait pas ce qui est exactement tel que c'est maintenant, la vie n'existerait pas du tout. Il n'y a que ceci, se manifestant comme il se doit. Demeurez simplement dans le Soi. Plongez dans le Soi vingt quatre heures sur vingt quatre, sept jours sur sept, jusqu'à ce que le temps révèle que lui-même est un concept et que celui qui fait l'action de demeurer ou plonger se fonde avec le Soi. Ce que vous êtes ne peut être objectivé, ne peut pas être connu et ne peut aller ni venir. Ce que vous êtes ne se situe pas au sein de l'apparence. Soyez préparé à laisser les conséquences s'occuper d'elles-mêmes. Il ne s'agit pas de sentir le vide, mais d'être le vide. Vous ne pouvez pas essayer de l'être, vous l'êtes. C'est de l'esclavage d'imaginer que vous êtes dans un processus, que vous avez un passé et un avenir et d'imaginer que vous allez quelque part. Ce que vous êtes ne se développe pas ou ne se dirige pas vers une finalité. La souffrance est l'idée qu'il y a un "je" qui n'aime pas ce qui se passe. Tout ce qui apparaît comme le monde est dépendant de vous pour valider son existence, et cela ne peut arriver que si vous avez pris pour réel le fait d'avoir une existence indépendante. Vous pouvez voir q